Looking for a Pooch....

[essdee1972]

Inder, all the best, and wish you, your family, and the new member many years of fun together!

And just by the way,

Now the maintenance issue ; This weekend I was carrying a 3 year male 85 kgs 33inch at withers Bully kutta [Indian mastiff] to the farm in my car . I opened the car today which is 2 days after the trip, there was hardly any foul scent.The caravan hound will hardly smell even when present in the car. When I carried a friend's 35 kg Labrador ret. for 2 hours, the car held the foul smell even after 3 days. This odor becomes a major issue when the animal is in confines of a flat. The indigenous suffer much lesser skin and other diseases since they have lived with these for generations and have their genetics developed to take care of them .

No offense, but my personal belief is that if one is bothered by dog's odour, one can't really be a doggie parent or a dog lover. Jojo (my Rottie) probably smells, I don't know, I don't even notice it (unless he's been rolling in the stuff, in which case he goes straight to the shower). He, of course, doesn't stink up the car. He doesn't drool. Unless he's got his head into the water bucket! I know because his favorite position is with his head on my knees whenever I am working on my PC or even sitting. He ain't the best behaved puppy in the world, but he's like our.... errr..... 2nd kid!

Moreover, he isn't a tenth generation Indianised foreigner. His sire is Bronko vom Hasan Hause, EU youth (puppy) champ from Serbia, and India Champ. My baby is, you can say, first generation Indian citizen.

And Steve, a freak question based on your dog training experience, why do the champ dogs have such complicated names? Is there an international standard?

[Vikram]

And Steve, a freak question based on your dog training experience, why do the champ dogs have such complicated names? Is there an international standard?

That is one thing that always intrigued and amused me.


Best-
Vikram

[Steve007]

I don't think three is any HD free certification is there but one of the pup will be KCI registered. BTW what you think about chocolate Labradors?

Thanks a lot for your help

Ask your vet. You are looking at a breed where there is a high incidence of hip dsyplasia. In the US, good breeders send xrays to the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and three radiologists read the Xrays, grade them (excellent, good , fair or no number) and issue an OFA # and certification. Has nothing to do kennel club registration. You cannot tell in pups; that's why parents need to be certified free of HD. India will probably have something similar. A lot of what people think is "arthritis" in dogs is HD. Both my dogs and both their parents (and grandparents) have OFA numbers.

Nothing wrong with chocolate labs; Labs are a fine breed, but their popularization means that there are a lot of poor quality individuals around. There are also a lot of different "lines" (breed split), though probably less so in India if there is no field trialing. You have to be selective with a popular breed, as there will be far more deviations from the norm.The "norm" in labs is quite good; I like the breed and have owned one. But there are some bad ones around.

Successful competition dogs will have titles at begining and/or end of names.They are not born with them; they achieve them. Some can have lots of titles. A good competition breeder always puts his "kennel name" on dogs he's bred. The sire of essdee1972's rot (above) is from the "vom Hasan Hause" kennel. Sometimes dogs are co-bred or co-owned by two breeders (one owns sire, one dam) and both kennel names will go on dog. My FC MH ((FC Jerelin's Justa Stacked Deck MH) was bred by Jerelin and Justa Kennels, my Ch CD ((CH Heywire N Justa's Look Who's Talkin' CD) by Heywire and Justa kennels. You only can have 25 letters in a name (not counting titles) so sometimes you abbreviate. See "N" in my male's name. Frequently there will be reference to the sire or litter (only obvious to those in the breed) to all the pups in the litter. For example, my male was sired by GCH Ch Ripsnorter's Mt View Lookout JH and all the pups in the litter have "look" in their names. But all dogs have regular "call names", of course. My dogs are Demi and Cooper. Most serious people in the breed know the call names of the big time dogs as well. If you said "Cooper" to a US wirehair breeder, he'd recognize my dog and if you said "Scout", he'd identify my dog's sire.

We're a bunch of serious -- some would say fanatical -- dog people, but we breed darned fine examples of our chosen breeds.

[Vikram]

Successful competition dogs will have titles at begining and/or end of names.They are not born with them; they achieve them. Some can have lots of titles. A good competition breeder always puts his "kennel name" on dogs he's bred. The sire of essdee1972's rot (above) is from the "vom Hasan Hause" kennel. Sometimes dogs are co-bred or co-owned by two breeders (one owns sire, one dam) and both kennel names will go on dog. My FC MH ((FC Jerelin's Justa Stacked Deck MH) was bred by Jerelin and Justa Kennels, my Ch CD ((CH Heywire N Justa's Look Who's Talkin' CD) by Heywire and Justa kennels. You only can have 25 letters in a name (not counting titles) so sometimes you abbreviate. See "N" in my male's name. Frequently there will be reference to the sire or litter (only obvious to those in the breed) to all the pups in the litter. For example, my male was sired by GCH Ch Ripsnorter's Mt View Lookout JH and all the pups in the litter have "look" in their names. But all dogs have regular "call names", of course. My dogs are Demi and Cooper. Most serious people in the breed know the call names of the big time dogs as well. If you said "Cooper" to a US wirehair breeder, he'd recognize my dog and if you said "Scout", he'd identify my dog's sire.

Thanks for the edification,Steve. Interesting to know the show dog nomenclature.

Best-
Vikram

[kanwar76]

I don't think three is any HD free certification is there but one of the pup will be KCI registered. BTW what you think about chocolate Labradors?

Thanks a lot for your help

Ask your vet. You are looking at a breed where there is a high incidence of hip dsyplasia. In the US, good breeders send xrays to the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and three radiologists read the Xrays, grade them (excellent, good , fair or no number) and issue an OFA # and certification. Has nothing to do kennel club registration. You cannot tell in pups; that's why parents need to be certified free of HD. India will probably have something similar. A lot of what people think is "arthritis" in dogs is HD. Both my dogs and both their parents (and grandparents) have OFA numbers.

Nothing wrong with chocolate labs; Labs are a fine breed, but their popularization means that there are a lot of poor quality individuals around. There are also a lot of different "lines" (breed split), though probably less so in India if there is no field trialing. You have to be selective with a popular breed, as there will be far more deviations from the norm.The "norm" in labs is quite good; I like the breed and have owned one. But there are some bad ones around.

Successful competition dogs will have titles at begining and/or end of names.They are not born with them; they achieve them. Some can have lots of titles. A good competition breeder always puts his "kennel name" on dogs he's bred. The sire of essdee1972's rot (above) is from the "vom Hasan Hause" kennel. Sometimes dogs are co-bred or co-owned by two breeders (one owns sire, one dam) and both kennel names will go on dog. My FC MH ((FC Jerelin's Justa Stacked Deck MH) was bred by Jerelin and Justa Kennels, my Ch CD ((CH Heywire N Justa's Look Who's Talkin' CD) by Heywire and Justa kennels. You only can have 25 letters in a name (not counting titles) so sometimes you abbreviate. See "N" in my male's name. Frequently there will be reference to the sire or litter (only obvious to those in the breed) to all the pups in the litter. For example, my male was sired by GCH Ch Ripsnorter's Mt View Lookout JH and all the pups in the litter have "look" in their names. But all dogs have regular "call names", of course. My dogs are Demi and Cooper. Most serious people in the breed know the call names of the big time dogs as well. If you said "Cooper" to a US wirehair breeder, he'd recognize my dog and if you said "Scout", he'd identify my dog's sire.

We're a bunch of serious -- some would say fanatical -- dog people, but we breed darned fine examples of our chosen breeds.

This is turning out to be an educational thread. Like others I was always intrigued about the champion dogs names.It make some sense now.

There are some champion Labs available but all show labs are little too "big" for my liking. Today evening I saw a Black Labrador, which is from some champion linage . It just looked unnatural to me, extra wide head and too punchy face if you know what I mean. whatever I've read in last few days is that show dogs does not make good field dogs and I want to train my dog to be a field dog (By Staying on the right side of our stupid laws).

One of the pup I am going to see is also from some import linage. Not sure about other 2. Lets see how it goes. Just out of interest what do you think about the attached pic. I know pic doesn't show the proper profile but breeder sent me only this. I will take proper one tomorrow.

Thanks a lot for everybody's help.

-Inder

[Kumarnishith]

I don't think three is any HD free certification is there but one of the pup will be KCI registered. BTW what you think about chocolate Labradors?

Thanks a lot for your help

Ask your vet. You are looking at a breed where there is a high incidence of hip dsyplasia. In the US, good breeders send xrays to the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and three radiologists read the Xrays, grade them (excellent, good , fair or no number) and issue an OFA # and certification. Has nothing to do kennel club registration. You cannot tell in pups; that's why parents need to be certified free of HD. India will probably have something similar. A lot of what people think is "arthritis" in dogs is HD. Both my dogs and both their parents (and grandparents) have OFA numbers.

Nothing wrong with chocolate labs; Labs are a fine breed, but their popularization means that there are a lot of poor quality individuals around. There are also a lot of different "lines" (breed split), though probably less so in India if there is no field trialing. You have to be selective with a popular breed, as there will be far more deviations from the norm.The "norm" in labs is quite good; I like the breed and have owned one. But there are some bad ones around.

Successful competition dogs will have titles at begining and/or end of names.They are not born with them; they achieve them. Some can have lots of titles. A good competition breeder always puts his "kennel name" on dogs he's bred. The sire of essdee1972's rot (above) is from the "vom Hasan Hause" kennel. Sometimes dogs are co-bred or co-owned by two breeders (one owns sire, one dam) and both kennel names will go on dog. My FC MH ((FC Jerelin's Justa Stacked Deck MH) was bred by Jerelin and Justa Kennels, my Ch CD ((CH Heywire N Justa's Look Who's Talkin' CD) by Heywire and Justa kennels. You only can have 25 letters in a name (not counting titles) so sometimes you abbreviate. See "N" in my male's name. Frequently there will be reference to the sire or litter (only obvious to those in the breed) to all the pups in the litter. For example, my male was sired by GCH Ch Ripsnorter's Mt View Lookout JH and all the pups in the litter have "look" in their names. But all dogs have regular "call names", of course. My dogs are Demi and Cooper. Most serious people in the breed know the call names of the big time dogs as well. If you said "Cooper" to a US wirehair breeder, he'd recognize my dog and if you said "Scout", he'd identify my dog's sire.

We're a bunch of serious -- some would say fanatical -- dog people, but we breed darned fine examples of our chosen breeds.

This is turning out to be an educational thread. Like others I was always intrigued about the champion dogs names.It make some sense now.

There are some champion Labs available but all show labs are little too "big" for my liking. Today evening I saw a Black Labrador, which is from some champion linage . It just looked unnatural to me, extra wide head and too punchy face if you know what I mean. whatever I've read in last few days is that show dogs does not make good field dogs and I want to train my dog to be a field dog (By Staying on the right side of our stupid laws).

One of the pup I am going to see is also from some import linage. Not sure about other 2. Lets see how it goes. Just out of interest what do you think about the attached pic. I know pic doesn't show the proper profile but breeder sent me only this. I will take proper one tomorrow.

Thanks a lot for everybody's help.

-Inder

Kanwar that's looking like a break barrel air rifle to me.. I thought you intended to post the pup's pic

-Nishith

[kanwar76]

Oops I messed up .editing..

[Steve007]

Nothing wrong with chocolate labs; Labs are a fine breed, but their popularization means that there are a lot of poor quality individuals around. There are also a lot of different "lines" (breed split),

Kanwar, if you want a field dog (I thought there was no hunting in India), that's the breeding where you need to look. You don't need to have your pup sired by FCs (that would likely cost many rupees and be more than what you need), but it should be from hunting or field trial lines with a few titles in the last few generations. Really,if that IS what you want, look up "field trial labradors india" or "field labradors india" or something similar on google and get some contacts. Keep in mind that serious trial dogs CAN be a little "hotter" (more active) than some might like. All show labs are not big and clunky, but there's no denying that if you want an honest hunting or trial dog, they are not your best choice. If you really want a working dog (not everyone does), you can't just assume it will be that way because of its breed.

[kanwar76]

You are right Steve, there is no hunting in INDIA apart from crow ,rats and maybe some restricted wild boars and Bluebulls. Sorry for confusing you, I just want to train my pup to do some retrieving, following my commands etc. There is absolutely no working labs of I know of in INDIA. I did talk to few breeders and they have no idea about it. I may move to a place in future where hunting is allowed and I would take the pup with me so I want is a dog which can be trained. I hope you get my gist

Thanks a lot for being patient with me. BTW did you see the puppy pic I attached in my earlier post.

-Inder

[Steve007]

You are right Steve, there is no hunting in INDIA Sorry for confusing you, I just want to train my pup to do some retrieving, following my commands etc. There is absolutely no working labs of I know of in INDIA. I did talk to few breeders and they have no idea about it. I may move to a place in future where hunting is allowed and I would take the pup with me so I want is a dog which can be trained.

If you want a genuine hunting/field dog, you have to get one out of genuine recent hunting lines (putting aside the possibility of getting lucky, which can certainly happen). If they don't exist in India (despite claims of those who want to sell you a dog), you can forget it. But it does NOT take a field bred dog to do what you want. Practically any mentally stable dog of a normal mind and conformation that will work with you (definitely includes retrievers,but many others, too) can be trained to the standards you're describing. Go to youtube and look up "Open obedience" or "Utility obedience" and see the wide variety of breeds trained to do topflight work.

Just get a healthy bold extroverted pup from HD-free parents that you like the looks of. If you do your share of careful training and attention to good health, the dog will do its share of trying to learn. The pup looks like a fat healthy heavy-boned baby lab. Pay attention to the parents (buy the litter first, not the pup) to see if it's what you want.

[essdee1972]

Inder, going by the time you are going to commit to the puppy - changing your work timings and all - I think even a pup which is not directly descended from hunting parents can be trained with that much commitment. After all, they are very intelligent creatures! And a Lab will have "retrieving" in its genetic memory.

Steve, thanks a lot for the education on the naming protocol. And the clarification of the call names. I couldn't imagine how my dog's sire was taught to fetch - "Bronko vom Hasan Hause, fetch!........ good boy, Bronko vom Hasan Hause"!!

[kanwar76]

You are right Steve, there is no hunting in INDIA Sorry for confusing you, I just want to train my pup to do some retrieving, following my commands etc. There is absolutely no working labs of I know of in INDIA. I did talk to few breeders and they have no idea about it. I may move to a place in future where hunting is allowed and I would take the pup with me so I want is a dog which can be trained.

If you want a genuine hunting/field dog, you have to get one out of genuine recent hunting lines (putting aside the possibility of getting lucky, which can certainly happen). If they don't exist in India (despite claims of those who want to sell you a dog), you can forget it. But it does NOT take a field bred dog to do what you want. Practically any mentally stable dog of a normal mind and conformation that will work with you (definitely includes retrievers,but many others, too) can be trained to the standards you're describing. Go to youtube and look up "Open obedience" or "Utility obedience" and see the wide variety of breeds trained to do topflight work.

Just get a healthy bold extroverted pup from HD-free parents that you like the looks of. If you do your share of careful training and attention to good health, the dog will do its share of trying to learn. The pup looks like a fat healthy heavy-boned baby lab. Pay attention to the parents (buy the litter first, not the pup) to see if it's what you want.

Thanks for the you tube pointers Steve.

Unluckily this one was already picked up. Other Black brother and Chocolate sis were available but I did not like the Dam and Sire. Both were chained and were very nervous/wary of outsiders. I've never seen a lab behave like that. Owner keep telling us not to go near the Sire. Something did not feel right so I just decided to walk away.

Search is on. I have set my mind on American type (With long Muzzle not a punch face- Off course if all other criteria are satisfied) chocolate or a Black mail. Hope fully i ll find one here.

Thanks once again for your help.
-Inder

[kanwar76]

Inder, going by the time you are going to commit to the puppy - changing your work timings and all - I think even a pup which is not directly descended from hunting parents can be trained with that much commitment. After all, they are very intelligent creatures! And a Lab will have "retrieving" in its genetic memory.

Steve, thanks a lot for the education on the naming protocol. And the clarification of the call names. I couldn't imagine how my dog's sire was taught to fetch - "Bronko vom Hasan Hause, fetch!........ good boy, Bronko vom Hasan Hause"!!

That is what I am hoping for essdee,

I am going to pick up one which at least look like a field dog then spend some time with him and hope for best

-Inder

[Steve007]

[Unluckily this one was already picked up. Other Black brother and Chocolate sis were available but I did not like the Dam and Sire. Both were chained and were very nervous/wary of outsiders. I've never seen a lab behave like that. Owner keep telling us not to go near the Sire. Something did not feel right so I just decided to walk away.

Just right. When a breed is popular, you get a lot of people breeding dogs that should not be bred because there is a market for them. Because almost all puppies look cute and because many people bring their kids with them, the pups get sold. They buy the pup and ignore the parents and litter. It is a very bad idea to get a pup from non-mentally stable parents. Don't forget to ask your vet about HD; you are buying a breed that is prone to it, and it is hereditary.

Keep looking and don't be afraid to say "no" again. As with marriages, if you're not sure, you probably shouldn't do it .

[wingsoffires66]

Sorry for the late reply.
Steve: I am not bored but glad to discuss with a knowledgeable apex like you .Most I come across aren't your league hence that rant, my good luck that you aren't the same. Kindly notice I had also quoted the following you did not reply to

I like all breeds and I have to foster more of the foreign breeds because their owners face issues . We are trying to help a friend find the best way around. So why would I suggest him to go for a breed which has some inherent issue like the dog foul or temperature resistance ( resulting into drool or skin problems) which majority of the foreign breeds in here suffer? Especially when we have vast options and almost all of them will thrive in all parts of the country.

Adding up I like all breeds thoroughly. Once I get a dog its breed or physical standardized specification hardly matters .Some dogs have exceptional abilities and some issues accompanied. Hip dysplasia for example is accompanied with big breeds like Boxers,German shepherds, Rottweilers, retrievers, Great Danes , St. Bernards,etc . All this in spite of dedicated research and all possible ways to avoid it by the breeders abroad. The story here is different .If Fluffy and Fang are good working dogs the owners will breed them . Done without a single medical test or examination yet there aren't any serious hereditary issues with the big indigenous breeds comparing to the above mentioned breeds and many others as well. This again to contradict myself I state that these problems are not scientifically checked if they might exist but assessed on the working ability of the dog and HOPED they might not exist an a good working specimen. There are breeds non indigenous with such qualities as well , I wont deny . But shouldnt we say the homies are really strong?

Some indigenous breeds are now extinct and rest on the verge. All indigenous are engineered as working dogs and not so appealing to an random eye and people here fancy all the foreign stuff hence these populations are diminishing. The hunting pack has lost its job, so the need to keep them is lost as well .I try to make a difference by introducing their qualities / abilities to convince someone home an indigenous breed specimen. How would one would deny their qualities like less maintenance , good immunity, adaptable to climate and dwelling comfort changes, predictable guarding instinct, no feeding tantrums, least coat issues,less drool and more aren't helpful keeping a dog ?

Hvj1: the biased liking towards some breed exists with me as well. I have foster failed and permanently homed 4 foreign breeds.

Kanwar: All will agree that it is never a bad animal but an inexperienced owner. Though Bully kuttas are sweet I wont suggest to keep them in a flat . Their aggression isnt painful but their weight is .Especially when they actually BULLY and step on the foot. But you can consider one of the hound class : Pashmi,Caravan or the Mudhol. Well behaved with kids, good guards plus all the qualities stated above. To add up, they will be glad to play the GAME you wish. I don't intend to impose anything and the decision is totally yours but just trying to promote the homies . You can always adopt a Lab ret. and you will be helping that abandoned soul.The quality labs come up for adoption too. Search YODA {youth organisation in defense of animals} ALL THE VERY BEST!!

Essdee : no offence taken as had I been of that attitude, I wouldn't be cleaning maggots and ticks for foster dogs often. Was trying help to prenotify the issues of a Flat Dog.