THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

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Moin.
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Tue May 15, 2012 1:06 am

Rajat wrote:
Moin. wrote: What do you recommend for fusing brass and steel and ofcourse for tang extensions ?

Regards
Moin.
Bi metal welding / joints are a bit complicated. Try iron to iron combination to extend the tang and simply weld it together. Its the strongest.

This has been suggested above too. Any weld will work: simple coil type electric, arc, spot. Do whatever is convenient. Even if you use the services of a welder we will still consider it a 100% DIY product since the efforts and guidance are all yours.

Grind the edges of both the tang and the other plate of metal (chamfer these / cut a furrow) at the joint into a V groove and weld in between and grind the excess off to have a smooth surface and a strong weld joint.

Image

Thanks Rajat, Yes i have seen how the chamfering is done to Sprinkler Pipes and X Ray Quality Welding to Chilled Water Lines from Chillers to Air Handling Units. This is though done by high grade and Class 01 Welders, ding it myself will be a challenge, I am willing to give it a shot :D How damn difficult can it be...

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by essdee1972 » Tue May 15, 2012 11:26 am

Moin,

For the brazed joint, I was worried about the impact of drilling - as the holes lower down the handle will be partially through the brazing. The strength will anyway hold up to whatever little use I will make.

What Dremel is yours? I was getting Dremel 300 (corded) + 55 accessories for 5500 at machpowertools.com. Is it OK?

I was also having ideas not to touch the handle at all, but do your vinegar / bleach / HCl process to the blade. Being a tourist product anyway, it is not meant to be used, so will redecorate it and keep it in the showcase. Also need thick leather as I am thinking of a new sheath. The original was rexine-wrapped wood, which is now obviously too loose for the knife. The local mochi should be a good resource, methinks!

Marthandan,

Could you get the HT furnace we discussed earlier?

Cheers,

EssDee
Cheers!

EssDee
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by ribaalber » Tue May 15, 2012 11:32 am

Nice one.. I have always wanted to own, (I do have one in my native place), but man, the problem is in carrying form one place to another. as I keep moving
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms .... disarm only
those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....."
- Thomas Jefferson

Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general.
~Mark Rippetoe

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Tue May 15, 2012 11:41 am

essdee1972 wrote:Moin,

For the brazed joint, I was worried about the impact of drilling - as the holes lower down the handle will be partially through the brazing. The strength will anyway hold up to whatever little use I will make.

What Dremel is yours? I was getting Dremel 300 (corded) + 55 accessories for 5500 at machpowertools.com. Is it OK?

I was also having ideas not to touch the handle at all, but do your vinegar / bleach / HCl process to the blade. Being a tourist product anyway, it is not meant to be used, so will redecorate it and keep it in the showcase. Also need thick leather as I am thinking of a new sheath. The original was rexine-wrapped wood, which is now obviously too loose for the knife. The local mochi should be a good resource, methinks!

Marthandan,

Could you get the HT furnace we discussed earlier?

Cheers,

EssDee
Hi Esdee, The Dremel 3000 is for 5500 at Lohar Chawl and Nagdevi Street as well. Alternatively you can get a decent Die Grinder for 1500 or so and buy the bit set seperately for 500. Apart from the Dremel Bits, hundreds of others available at Nagdevi.

The Dremel seemed expesive at 5500, got a Skil Bench Grinder with 6" Wheel, an orbital sander with 4x4 base and a small rotart tool for the same costs of a Dremel kit.

Alternatively I gather from your post that you have a motorised drill. If so there is a flexishaft attatchment I saw at Lohar Chawl which attatches to the motorised drill chuck and you can buy the attatchments individually at 30 to 40 a pop or in a set which costs 500 or so. For this attachments a lot more bits are available in thicker shaft size i.e 4mm + which can be used for heavier work. I brought a much smaller rotory tool for fine work, the tool itself teh elctrical adapatar with variable speed came for 1200. It's quite small and to be used for engraving works, for artists basically.

Check out Bladeforums for the lovely mods people do on their blades with patinas and etchings, You will be inspired. :D Thick leather is available at Dharavi. Check it out. I know the leather wrapped sheath you are referring to, try doing your own, will be good fun. Marthandan and Rajat are here to answer all our queries. :D

Regards
Moin.

P.S: Esdee, do you have a well ventilated place for keeping the bhatti. I tried making Kebabs once on a locally brought charcoal furnanace and the Kitchen Counter Top Granite cracked. Was a very expensive repair job or very expesive Kebabs :mrgreen:
In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. Camus

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by marthandan » Tue May 15, 2012 12:14 pm

esdee...nope. but i stopped looking as i have a charcoal furnace and am only working with non stainless steels right now. will start looking again when i decide to move on to stainless steels.
marthandan

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Rajat » Tue May 15, 2012 2:19 pm

essdee1972 wrote: I need some advice on tangs. My Khuk has a rattail tang, fixed into the wooden handle with some local type mixture (probably with coaltar as a base + something...). I can see no way to stick the tang in a handle once I melt out the "adhesive". Probably m-seal would work, but only for show, probably would give out with the first use. Can I have a piece of steel welded on to make a full tang? Won't the welding heat damage whatever heat treatment is present on the blade (seems to be MS)?I was toying with the idea of using a plastic handle (like the ones for files / hacksaws) and heat-setting the tang. But it will totally totally ruin the looks!! As for tools, I am using hand tools only, except for a drill if needed. Might invest in a Dremel later on.
Traditionally lac was used to fix swords and daggers to the hilts but you are going to have a hard time doing that and finding the stuff etc.

if you want to work with the rat tail tang without modifying it then design a wood handle with locally available furniture grade wood. This may be done by cutting, grinding, shaving it off and filing it to the desired shape. If possible reinforce it with iron / brass / copper sheet bands fixed with fine nails. It will give it strength when you will be fixing the tang as well as add to the looks depending on how you do it.

Once this is done check out the diameter of the tip of the rat tail and use a drill bit of that diameter and length and drill a hole through the handle. Now use a slightly larger bit and go half way through the handle again. Once this is done use pin files of the appropriate diameters and file off inside the handle to give it a capsule shape to fut the tang inside. It should be a bit tight, if it is too tight and you try to hammer it then the handle will split through the middle.

Fixing: buy an epoxy adhesive (two component). You will most easily find either Araldite or Fevitite (Pidilite). MIx the epoxy in the appropriate ratio which is usually 1:1 but depends on the kind you are using.

Be sure to mix it in the right ratio and thoroughly. This will give you a viscous paste. Now “pour” the paste into the hole in the handle. You will not be able to exactly pour it in as it is viscous so let it drip in and use a stiff straw or a thin stick or something to guide it in to the end of the handle. No need to rush as it will not dry fast.

Ok before I forget: cut small notches into the tang with the help of a file or grinder. These will give an additional grip in the bond as the epoxy will get into the notches and fill these up and dry in this shape giving a non slip grip inside the handle. These epoxies are the non shrinking type and when dry are as hard as stone and do not melt when heated etc.

Coming back to the epoxy filled handle. Take a piece of wood and make the blade stand tip down and tang up on this piece of wood. Invert the handle with the hole facing the tang and force it in the hole by gently hammering the handle with another piece of wood or if you use a metal hammer do it gently.

This is going to be a messy affair as the epoxy will drip all over the blade and possibly the handle too will get smeared with it. Either wipe it off with a piece of cloth or be prepared in advance and cover the blade and handle in advance with a masking tape. If you leave it on the blade and handle then you will have a hard time cleaning it off as it will take a lot of sanding and filing, no other way to get it off after drying as it will be stone hard.
Leave the handle fixed to the blade for a few hours while the epoxy has still not set. A minimum of 5-6 hours to ideally 12 hours are needed.
Give the finishing touches and your knife is ready for use and abuse.
There are several other ways this could be done but looking into all that you have mentioned this is the simplest way I could figure out for you.

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by essdee1972 » Wed May 16, 2012 10:50 am

Gentlemen, thanks a lot!!!

Rajat, great idea on the handle, I will try it on the second khukri. But first I will make the handle - don't want to take off the original and then discover I don't have any woodworking skills!!!

Right now, I am thinking of two projects....

1. The first showpiece Khukri to be etched and patina'ed, and leather sheath constructed. WIP on the blade grinding. Will not bite off more than I can chew :). Moin, do I have to trawl the innards of Dharavi for the leather? I have only touched the surface, i.e. the leather shops on the main road. Probably a couple of weekends more to get the blade proper.

2. Sourcing a piece of old leaf spring through the friendly neighbourhood car repair wallah. Will try making a knife out of it, starting from scratch. Pending some investments on tools, etc. Now that, will be a BIG BITE!! Hope I don't get a bad tummy!! Moin, the flexishaft you mentioned fits into a normal drill chuck, and the attachments fit into the other end of the shaft? I have a Skil drill, but the variable speed depends on how hard you press the trigger. I am planning to be in Lohar Chawl sometime next month, will buzz you then. Last time I was there with the better half, managed just a quick "walkthrough" ;).

Cheers!

Now, as soon as I can get the
Cheers!

EssDee
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Wed May 16, 2012 12:20 pm

essdee1972 wrote:Gentlemen, thanks a lot!!!

Rajat, great idea on the handle, I will try it on the second khukri. But first I will make the handle - don't want to take off the original and then discover I don't have any woodworking skills!!!

Right now, I am thinking of two projects....

1. The first showpiece Khukri to be etched and patina'ed, and leather sheath constructed. WIP on the blade grinding. Will not bite off more than I can chew :). Moin, do I have to trawl the innards of Dharavi for the leather? I have only touched the surface, i.e. the leather shops on the main road. Probably a couple of weekends more to get the blade proper.

2. Sourcing a piece of old leaf spring through the friendly neighbourhood car repair wallah. Will try making a knife out of it, starting from scratch. Pending some investments on tools, etc. Now that, will be a BIG BITE!! Hope I don't get a bad tummy!! Moin, the flexishaft you mentioned fits into a normal drill chuck, and the attachments fit into the other end of the shaft? I have a Skil drill, but the variable speed depends on how hard you press the trigger. I am planning to be in Lohar Chawl sometime next month, will buzz you then. Last time I was there with the better half, managed just a quick "walkthrough" ;).

Cheers!

Now, as soon as I can get the

Lovely :D :D So the Patina and Etching Thread was useful, good to hear. Wait for a couple of weeks, we'll plan a trip to Dharavi for the leather and then to Lohar Chawl/Nagdevi. I saw several stores in Nagdevi side selling various steel flat sections, if you being a mettalurgist tag along maybe we can pick up something more suitable for knife making. :) I saw the catalog the store had, but could not find a single one that I've heard or read being used to make knives. Probably should turn out better than Leaf Spring, worth a shot I guess.

If you have a Skil Drill then this attatchment would be very useful, you get hundreds of die grinder bits and attachments that you can fix on the shaft and viola you have a heavy duty Dremel Like Tool with all attachments for less than 1.5K. One side of the flexi shaft fits on teh Drill Chuck and the other end of the flexible head has a Mini Die Grinder Like Set up. Advantage will be you can fit bits with more than 3-4mm shaft thickness, which I think the Dremel and Similar tools have their limitations.

Buzz me when you are ready to go.

Regards
Moin.
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Sun May 20, 2012 2:25 pm

This is the rotary tool.

Image

Image
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Sun May 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Finally cut the notch using hacksaw, files and a little bit of the rotary tool. Now have to weld the damn thing in place, figur out the spine and samd the blade and handle.

Image

Image

The blade with the 6mm thick brass blank the handle was cut from
Image

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Moin.
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Sun May 20, 2012 3:34 pm

Moin,

In all probability,the blade is made from leaf spring.A piece of leaf spring instead of brass would have been cheaper and also a better option.You can get steel welded to the tang and the end product would be been stronger and a lot safer.With the current set up,I would be concerned about the two pieces coming apart when you try to chop something with it and the blade flying off and causing an accident.

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Mon May 21, 2012 9:22 am

winnie_the_pooh wrote:Moin,

In all probability,the blade is made from leaf spring.A piece of leaf spring instead of brass would have been cheaper and also a better option.You can get steel welded to the tang and the end product would be been stronger and a lot safer.With the current set up,I would be concerned about the two pieces coming apart when you try to chop something with it and the blade flying off and causing an accident.

Your concern is noted Winnie, this blade is for display purposes only. Have much better blades that I can carry and chop with if I ever need to carry one. This one's just to try my handout at metal working & finshing. The brass looks gorgeous when polished and is a nice contrast to the patina I intend to do on the blade.

Regards
Moin.
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by varunik » Mon May 21, 2012 10:26 am

Moin, have you ever considered designing knives and selling them?
If yes, you have a customer.
So many times, it happens too fast
You trade your passion for glory
Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past
You must fight just to keep them alive

It's the eye of the tiger
It's the thrill of the fight
Risin' up to the challenge
Of our rival
And the last known survivor
Stalks his prey in the night
And he's watching us all with the
Eye of the tiger

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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Sat May 26, 2012 6:12 pm

Visited a few fabrication shops and was told welding a brass piece to steel was not feasable, more so on showing them what was required to be welded. Went to a store catering to AC mechanics, copper piping, insulation etc and picked up a portable butane can & head attatchment to try and braze the piece my self.

What a big pile of FAILURE :oops:

Also brought some industrial strength epoxy (like araldite) to tack the handle and the blade in place.
Wrapped the blade in newspaper, taped it and soaked it in water so heating would not affect the HT of the blade.

Image

The epoxy's quite strong and bonded in 5 minutes, got a very good joint.

Image

Practice on a left over piece of brass.

Image


Managed to pry the two pieces apart with my trusty Gerber but the Copper Brazing Rod (could'nt find any brass brazing rods) bonded really well to the brass piece.

Image

Image

Image

The Epoxy that I used to tack the handle and the blade in place melted... Dodo me..Kept a piece of brass at the joint to avoid direct flame, did not work

Image

After 4 failed attempts to braze (the blobs of molten brazen rod would just not bond with the steel blade but would stick like glue to brass !!) and ruvnning out of brazing rods, gave up and used the epoxy to fix the blade in place. The epoxy's now very hard, tried twisting and hammering the handle, it's holding it well....

Image

Bummer, failed attempt at brazing and the rotary tool chuk broke (was better of buying a dremel) while trying to make grooves in G10.... Damn, not a good day to work on knives
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Re: THE KHUKRI PROJECT- 06-05-2012

Post by Moin. » Sat May 26, 2012 6:21 pm

varunik wrote:Moin, have you ever considered designing knives and selling them?
If yes, you have a customer.
:mrgreen: Thank you Varunik for the compliment. Can't even figure out a way to weld to pices together, getting a decent blade made now seems a million miles away... :oops:

Regards
Moin.
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