Buying Knives and other sharp n shiny objects in Rajasthan.

[Moin.]

Awesome collection there Moin. And thank God you took the train.

Bruno, my mum did'nt sleep al night. She was sure I would be locked up on reaching Bandra Station...... I actually passed through the Jaipur station metal detector with all these... heheheheh....

Glad you liked them..

Regards
Moin.

-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:25 pm --

hi moin its really a good o say excellent collection u hav there........
hope ur mom keeps on yelling at u for d same, as its d same for me hear......
hi moin dosth where did u get those throwing knives yar been searching for it for d last 2.5 years need them badly plz do imform me yar.....
it wil be very kindfull of ur yar.....

Abhi these are throwing darts, chinese junk that I'm often tempted to buy. These came dirst cheap ie 35 bucks for 4 darts with the case. Brough these from a road side stall in Musafirkhana in Mumbai..

If you're looking at Throwing knives, Cold Steel has these True Flight Throwers. These are sold at Saleh Arms Stores in Mumbai for INR2500....

Regards
Moin

[ABHI.BASU]

hi moin can u plz give me some more imformation abt it plz
n those china ones also look good.
but hear v don get none in mysore....
can u plz help me buy some both good ones n china ones plz....
I love them......

[Moin.]

Hi Abhi;

Here's the link to the cold steel thrower. Saw this one at Saleh Arms for INR 2500/-.....


http://www.coldsteel.com/trueflight.html

The chinese ones come in from time to time at various road side stalls in Crawford market.If I see any more I'll try to pick up a few...

Regards
Moin.

-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:19 pm --

a very sweet collection you have got.. love everything..
but i'm a bit more interested in Chinese Throwing Darts and balisong, can please tell me where did you get those? particularly Chinese Throwing Darts.
thanks for sharing the images and wish that your collection and love for “sharp and shiny” keeps growing

The balisong's available at Heera Panna. This store is next to the DVD store at the end of the first lane towards the left... Nothing great, paid INR 500 for it.... The Chinese ones next to the lane near Manish market called Musafir khana.. They generally hardware like pliers , screw driver sets etc and a few knives from time to time....

thanks for sharing the images and wish that your collection and love for “sharp and shiny” keeps growing

Thank you Hunterjack...

Regards
Moin.

[ABHI.BASU]

thanks a lot moin.
it would be very kind of u if u could see for those chinese darts for me plz....

-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:58 pm --

hi moin I need ur help can u plz pm me I hav some verifications
I tried to pm u but I think its not going don know y....

[Katana]

Moin: Historically speaking, the gems in your collections are the swords in pics no. 22 and 26, in particular the one in the no. 26 photograph. The first one seems to be a sowar's (sawaar?, as in horseman) sabre, probably from the north of India, early British type. The scabbrad would have been a simple black leather on wood affair with a brass chape. These were mass produced and did not have much tensile strength. Look for any remnants of a maker's stamp on the obverse side of the blade where it meets the hilt. Gujranwala, Lahore, Peshawar, Meerut etc. were early sword productions centers for the Company and British Army. On the reverse side again look for markings of the Unit etc. These can easily be confused with serial numbers which, of course, were not in practice in those days.

The second one seems to be from the Marwar-Sirohi belt, according to the design of the hilt and pommel. The 'gaadi' (a cotton cushion just where the fore finger and thumb clasp the hilt) is missing. the 'chot' is correctly positioned. However, the pommel gives a clue to its age, its rather new. Its too rounded exactly and too thick to be handmade. On a first look at the photo, I presumed this sword to be a 'jhaji'. These were blades which could be bent. Hold the tip of the blade and see if you can flex it to about 30 degrees. Alternatively, if you hold the sword with the hilt and shake it laterally the blade tip should move on the opposite direction of your hand movement. If so, then you have a classic, although the hilt may have been added or changed at a later date. This sword should be extremely light and give you the feeling that you could swing it with your thumb and fore finger.

As concerns the age, I cannot tell you anything till I have it in hands. Moreover, please do not attempt to sharpen or remove the rust on your own. Let it be done by a professional if you so wish.

I quite liked the design of the silver inlay one. This work is called 'bidri' and originated in Agra but was perfected in Rajasthan and subsequently in Hyderabad. However, the blade seems to be pattern cut steel with faux damascus. I suppose it is heavy. Hilt is inlaid with camel bone, so popular with tourists visiting Rajasthan. Interestingly, there seems to be a cartouche on the reverse of the blade. Could you post a picture of that?

The 3 daggers have bidri work on them, not 'koftgari'. The latter is done in gold thread only.

[Olly]

Lovely collection there... !!

Keep it up....

[kalashnikovcult]

moin the sharpner that you bought for them is it good for the big mommas ? i mean the tulwars ?

[Moin.]

"These were blades which could be bent. Hold the tip of the blade and see if you can flex it to about 30 degrees. Alternatively, if you hold the sword with the hilt and shake it laterally the blade tip should move on the opposite direction of your hand movement. If so, then you have a classic, although the hilt may have been added or changed at a later date. This sword should be extremely light and give you the feeling that you could swing it with your thumb and fore finger."

Thank You much for teh detailed information. Yes the blade's very very flexible and can be very easily bent, you can shake it literally and the blade wobbles and the sword is extremely light. The delaer had around 30-40 of these old swords without any ornamentation tied up together in cloth. I honestly picked these two as the blade was very different from the others, i.e very flexible and seemed like a novelty to me. The second one looked like an old british sword. Most of the other swords by constant sharpening the blade profile had been grounded down, these two looked different.....
I'll try taking a video with closeups and posting it on youtube and pasting the link here so you can review. I looked up the internet and found this.

http://swordforum.com/forums/showthread ... ble-swords

There is also a Flexible Sword/Tulwar (in the normal sense of the word) which was most definately a fighting weapon and was called "Jhaji Tulwar" here in Rajasthan (these Swords were rare and were usually carried by/reserved for the personal bodyguards of Kings). They were made of "Asht Dhaatu" or an alloy of eight metals. They hold an edge very well and are excellent fighting weapons. The advantage i think was that these swords very rarely broke in battle. Also they are lighter in weight than normal swords (I have been fortunate to handle one) hence one could fight longer without getting tired (So I have been told).

"As concerns the age, I cannot tell you anything till I have it in hands. Moreover, please do not attempt to sharpen or remove the rust on your own. Let it be done by a professional if you so wish."

Any recommendations on the availabilty of professional restorers. Thanks....

" quite liked the design of the silver inlay one. This work is called 'bidri' and originated in Agra but was perfected in Rajasthan and subsequently in Hyderabad. However, the blade seems to be pattern cut steel with faux damascus. I suppose it is heavy. Hilt is inlaid with camel bone, so popular with tourists visiting Rajasthan. Interestingly, there seems to be a cartouche on the reverse of the blade. Could you post a picture of that?

The 3 daggers have bidri work on them, not 'koftgari'. The latter is done in gold thread only."

Noted with thanks, I'll post the video of this one too... The sword looks really beautiful up close...

P.S: You have an amazing knowho on ancient edged weapons, it's a very very interesting subject.. Must have taken years and years of study...

Thanks Again.
Moin.

-- Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:28 am --

Lovely collection there... !!

Keep it up....

Thank You Olly...

Regards
Moin.

-- Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:37 am --

moin the sharpner that you bought for them is it good for the big mommas ? i mean the tulwars ?

Well kalashnikovcult, I have'nt really tried it on very large blades as I've read here sharp edged weapons more than 9" violate the Arms Act. The new one brought from Rajastahn with the bidri work has no edge at all, the edge is in fact as thick as the spine. The two old ones were razor sharp when I brought them. I had the edge rubbed slightly with a carborundum stone to blunt them as I had to carry them back to mumbai.

The Lansky brilliant when it comes to blades under 5 inches. The constraint is the size of the rod connected to the hone. I guess it can be done by carefully shifting the clamp farther once one section of the blade is done. If the location of the clamp shifts from the previous distance from the edge the bevel will be off and not consistent..

But it works wonders on smaller blades. Very easy to get any knife shaving sharp like you seen in the videos on youtube slicing paper and shaving arm hair. I use the coarse grit hone and the medium grit hone to get a good bevel on the blade. I've wrapped a 1200 grit polish paper on the fine hone and use it to get a mirror polished very very sharp edge...Surprisingly even the Chinese knives take a very good edge, ofcourse the CRKt, Boker, Sypderco's a different deal.. Great kit for the price I got it for... Check out some videos on youtube. Highly recommend the product.

Regards
Moin.

[Katana]

Moin,

About the jhajhi, I acquired one for a collector about 6 odd months ago although it was in much better shape than yours is. Paid through the nose for it. Anyway, it's quite true that it was made of 'asht dhatu', eight metals including gold.This technology was developed around the time of Alexander The Great's time of invasion and the epicenter of this kind of sword making was in Sirohi. Alas, it is extinct now. None of the traditional sword making families remember the technique (passed down through generations orally) nor do they have any wootz left.

I still have a small doubt about its originality, but I can confirm that only after physically looking at it. Meanwhile, do not attempt anything on it. Whenever you are heading to Rajasthan next, get in touch with me, I'll have some of the karigars look into it for the restoration. What surprises me is that you say that the dealer had a sizeable quantity of them. Had he known about it, he would have asked for the moon from you!

Two more similar constructions are the Sikh Gatka and the Malabar Urumi, although the Rajput Jhajhi required much more work.

About your comment on my knowledge on this subject, all I can say that it is just an interest, largely historical, although one could also say I picked up a sword before a pencil or a pen!

[Moin.]

[quote="Katana"]Moin,

About the jhajhi, I acquired one for a collector about 6 odd months ago although it was in much better shape than yours is. Paid through the nose for it. Anyway, it's quite true that it was made of 'asht dhatu', eight metals including gold.This technology was developed around the time of Alexander The Great's time of invasion and the epicenter of this kind of sword making was in Sirohi. Alas, it is extinct now. None of the traditional sword making families remember the technique (passed down through generations orally) nor do they have any wootz left.


Wow, and I paid 3500 for it....I'll try and post a video soon on it... yes the dealer had many many more swords, but none with flexible blades. I only picked this one up as the blade was flexible which seemed starnge and like a novelty to me...I know how idiotic this sounds..

Meanwhile, do not attempt anything on it. Whenever you are heading to Rajasthan next, get in touch with me, I'll have some of the karigars look into it for the restoration. What surprises me is that you say that the dealer had a sizeable quantity of them. Had he known about it, he would have asked for the moon from you!

Thank you Katana, I wnat to visit Jodhpur and Udaipur.. Once something is in the pipeline i will get in touch. Please let me know your email Id.

Thanks again... Will post a video soon...

Regards
Moin.

[Rolf]

There are forums for bikes, photography, adventure sports and others. This was, without doubt, one of the best across any forum.

[hillsman]

by Rolf » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:24 pm

There are forums for bikes, photography, adventure sports and others. This was, without doubt, one of the best across any forum.

[slingshot]

Moin for this wonderful thread, you deserve my special mutton korma! Wah bhai Wah!

[Moin.]

There are forums for bikes, photography, adventure sports and others. This was, without doubt, one of the best across any forum.

IFG's more addictive than Facebook or Orkut Totally agree....... Have not seen this knowledge base and know how and sharing of information anywhere else.

Best
Moin.

-- Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:09 pm --

Moin for this wonderful thread, you deserve my special mutton korma! Wah bhai Wah!

I'm salivating already Wohooooo Mutton Korma, Look forward Chef



Regards
Moin.

[Katana]

I have had 'leheriya' and 'nav durga' blades made lately from Udaipur. Both are yet to be finished but I thought I would share this with everyone.

WIPSwords 004 (Small).jpg

WIPSwords 002 (Small).jpg

WIPSwords 001 (Small).jpg

WIPSwords 017 (Small).jpg

This is a 'leheriya' straight sword which was primarily used for court purposes. The name 'leheriya' alludes to the pattering of the blade, 'leheriya' as in wavy. The chevron appreance is made from alternating segments of pattern welded watered steel which assumes a silvery colour and a steel without apparent pattern of a light grey colour.

Technically speaking, this form of sword is one of the most complex to manufacture. In fact, this process has been revived after almost 250 years and some karigars are attempting it, although it is not yet perfect. The weld points still show up a bit.

The other one is an etched 'nav durga' khanda. The nine forms of Goddess Durga are hand etched on either side. These are generally used for Dusshera puja. This is yet incomplete and still needs major etching work and watering of the blade. The hilt shall be gold kundan on solid steel in the basket form of pommel.

WIPSwords 013 (Small).jpg

WIPSwords 014 (Small).jpg