Pictures of another oldie of mine.

[herb]

I was doing some info search on another one of mine...

The barrel rib says " W.W. Greener Hay Market London & St Mary's Square Birmingham. Winner at London Gun Trials 1875, 1877, 1878 & 1879"

The barrel rib also has the following in an oval " Patent Triple Wedge Fast"

The Trigger guard has "41384 List No 56"











" Patent Triple Wedge Fast" in an oval form. Some kind of locking mechanism.













Cheers!

[Sakobav]

Herb

Thats a classic another one from your collection thanks for sharing..

Best

[Tai Ahom]

A complete beauty in the most absolute manner

[dr.jayakumar]

hmmmm do you remember sometime back you said you will give me that gun .just in case you have forgotten.

[timmy]

Thanks for sharing, Herb. It is so wonderful to think of the history, tradition, and quality in that shotgun, and also of the skilled hands that created it. It must be even more wonderful to hold it!

[The Doc]

Congratulations herb,

This is yet another beauty from your collection.

Thanks for sharing,

Rp.

[prashantsingh]

Priceless piece of Art. What a beauty.
My personal favourite is the Double Barrel Gun. The most versatile weapon.

[shooter]

nice gun.

damascus barrels.Have you had to use browning fluid? how do you look after them? Damascus barrel guns are in big demand among collectors and may cost a fortune. this one is a keeper.

Dont want to nit pick but im sure you meant haymarket (r and t are next to each other on the keyboard).

[herb]

Thanks guys.

Shooter - You are correct, it is 68 Haymarket. A typo. I have corrected.

The gun was manufactured with the brown color. Greener mentions the browning process and the chemicals used in one of his books.

Excerpt from his book...

"The bronzed appearance of the finished gun is obtained by a process of rusting the barrels, the rust being cultivated, then stopped; the complete oxidation of surface less liable to rust by natural means."

Rgds.

-- Sun May 16, 2010 16:48 --

Also I think it is a Facile Princeps action and not the standard A&D. I have posted on a few other forums to confirm...



Cheers!

[eljefe]

Good 'un Herb.Thanks for posting

[Vikram]

Beautiful gun,Herb,with so much character and time.Very nice to have.Facile Princeps action with Greener crossbolt and side safety.

Is it still in proof,black powder or nitro? Thank you for sharing.

More on the Facile Princeps action-posted by Mehul on Nitroexpress.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/printthr ... &type=post

The Anson & Deeley (or boxlock) action was invented in 1875 (patent 1756 of
1875). In this patent the tumblers are cocked by raising the breech end of
the barrels on opening the breech. Pivoting around the hinge pin is a
cocking lever which has a projection protruding through the front of the
action body into the fore end. The other end of the cocking lever is below
the prolonged forearm of the tumbler. After firing the tumbler forearm
rests against the cocking lever. As the breech is opened and the fore end
moves downwards, the front end of the cocking lever is forced down and the
rear end is forced up, moving the tumbler into bent against the mainspring
until held by the sear. When the barrels are closed the tumbler remains
cocked but the cocking lever returns to its original position. The gun can
then be fired.

This action was one of the major advances for breech-loading shotguns and
rifles, being easier to manufacture and simpler than the traditional
side-lock actions made by most other gunmakers. W W Greener was paying
Westley Richards who owned the Anson & Deeley patent a 15 shilling Royalty
for each gun he made which employed the A & D action. Clearly it was to his
advantage to find a way around the patent so he could make similar guns
without the disadvantage of paying one of his competitors for the priviledge
of using one of their designs.

In 1880, five years later, W W Greener patented his own 'Facile Princeps'
action. Like the A&D the locks were housed in the underside of the action
but instead of cocking the tumblers with a lever actuated by the fore end he
used a hook on the barrel lump for cocking. The fore end of the gun was not
used in any way to cock the gun and this was later proved in court as the
essential difference between the two mechanisms. Facile Princeps tumblers
have extended fore arms which are turned inwards towards each other. This
is so they engage on the hook in the front barrel lump. The hook is
attached to the front barrel lump so that the lower part lifts the extended
forearm of the tumblers into bent when the breech is opened to reload. On
closing the breech the tumbler is retained by the sear and the hook on the
lump returns to its original position, ready to cock the gun again when it
has been fired.

This invention upset Westley Richards who thought the Facile Princeps worked
on the same principle as their own A&D action, so they took W W Greener to
court in 1881. Greener won the day although Westleys were given leave to
appeal which they did in 1883 at the Court of Appeal, where the case again
went Greener's way. It finally reached the House of Lords in 1884 where
Westleys lost again. The difference in the two mechanisms lies in the
sliding rod in the front barrel lump which moves to position the hook so it
engages with the turned in end of the tumblers. Westleys argued that this
acted like their cocking lever. However the Law Lords decide that this was
not the case, the sliding rod in the Facile Princeps did not affect the
cocking of the gun, its only use was to allow the gun to be dismantled. The
rod actually allows the hook to move back so that it clears the bridge of
the action (between the two barrel lumps) when the gun is opened - that is
its only function.

Best-
Vikram

[herb]

Thanks Vikram. The gun is black powder prooved. I could have it nitro prooved or sleeved but I would rather shoot my Beretta & Browning & and leave this one alone.

I can always get low pressure BP cartridges from manufactures like Kent etc.

One learns so much when you start researching a gun. Although I have heard about the Facile Princeps action, I never associated it with Greener. Over the last few days I learnt a lot about Greener.

BTW any idea whats up with Greener website (http://www.wwgreener.com)? I don't see any content on their web site.

Cheers!

[jdieter]

I have almost the exact same shotgun, (43214) but it has the A&D boxlock: Does that mean it is pre 1881?