target rifle vs sniper rifle

[Sakobav]

My cousin used to hunt ducks in the river and ponds with a BSA .22 ( great gun ) with a tube magazine. We had regular KF or Elley bullets. Problem with river is they are floating and then its hard to estimate the distance. Ducks can also differentiate between city slickers and locals..

I have hunted lot of doves and they are also very shy birds. The smartest one and hardest to get are the damn crows.

My flying shot and lucky one was an owl which came flying attacking me in a barn. This bird was preying on hens and chicks of a farmer and we were offered money to get rid of it. It was reflex shot and had I missed the talons would have sliced my face or head.

Well once my grandfather found out he read us a riot act and explained the eco balance and why birds like Vultures and Owls are required.

Rgds

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

I am typing this from memory as the book is currently in India with the rest of my archives but Pollard lists the St Etienne manufactured 9mm Flobert "Buffalo" (a most unusual name for the gun) bolt action as introduced in the 1890s as far as I remember. The French would have had some early advantage in introducing this round as they invented smokeless powder, I guess.

TC,

If the Calcutta shops do not have records, you could try gun shops in Chandranagore if there are any. They would be the places to look in because of their French heritage.

[TC]

Grumpy, you are a sea of knowledge. Thanks again.

Mehul, there is only one shop in Chandernagore that is still operating, although on a small scale. But I doubt how much of the old records are preserved. Will check.

Some of the oldest gun shops in the country are in Kolkata as it was the capital.
R B Roda for example, its closed now. But I managed to fish out some real antique stuff before they finally downed shutter and the weapons (mostly kept under Section 21 of the Arms Act) were transferred to other dealers by an order of the Police Commissioner. Manton and Co was another one that closed down about ten years ago. One of the old darwans made a fortune by selling antique swords and accessories without the knowlede of the owners.
A T Daw and N C Daw are more than 100 years old and they still have a good business. Both have preserved old recods and antique weapons. East India Arms in another shop that can be mentioned here. Will see if I can trace any record of the Flobert "Buffalo".

Wishing a Very Active New Year

TC

[TC]

Grumpy, have you seen or read "Rifleman Goes to War" by a British soldier H W Mcbride.
A friend told me it was first book on sniping that had reference to reallife experience. Mcbride was soldier who served in the Boer War or may be WWI. I am not very sure. Is the book available in Britain?

Wishing a very happy New Year

TC

[Vikram]

TC, checked on Amazon,UK.It's not there. Check the title and author and let me know.Will try again.

Best-
Vikram

[TC]

Thanks Vikram. That was real fast. Just called up my friend. He re-confirmed what he said. Its a rare book it seems. I will also check...

Happy New Year. Have plans to party a bit tonight although I have to start early tomorrow.

[Vikram]

I shall try to find it.If I locate it, will let you know.Happy New Year.

Best-
Vikram

[Grumpy]

I have to admit that I`ve never heard of `A Rfleman Goes to War`.

[TC]

Grumpy, in that case our job becomes all the more difficult. But my friend sounds so convinced. I will search the net...its becoming something of a challenge now...

Happy New Year

TC

[Sujay]

Sujay, you think that one is bound to hit a bird with a shotgun ? Try it sometime. If shotguns guaranteed a 100 % `kill` rate there would be no sport in clay shooting.

John,

Of course there is no concept of 100% kill with shotgun, but it is easy compared with using a small bore rifle; in fact a lot easier as per other members is that what I have learnt here.

Even if I fail repeatedly with shotgun, that dosen't count because I am not trained in using it. But if equal efforts are put by somebody experienced ( like you ), the success rate with a small bore rifle will be less compared to that with a shotgun.

[mehulkamdar]

Sujay,

I think there are some misconceptions at play here. Shooting with a shotgun is no walk in the park. If it were, then perfect scores in shotgun competition would be the norm as they are in rifle matches. They are, most certainly, not. With the unpredictability of game the chances of hitting them with a shotgun are also more a matter of skill than of science. That is the reason why the shotgun was considered the quintessential gentleman's gun and the most prestigious shoots happen to be shotgun shoots in the UK or on the Continent, and, increasingly, these days, in places like South Dakota in the USA.

I used to disparage shotgunners when I started shooting (my first gun was a 22 lr rifle) but when I started shooting a shotgun I realised that I had been wrongly prejudiced. This was in the late 1970s and early 80s, so you now know that age has made me somewhat wiser on this matter. In the end, both shooting a rifle and shooting a shotgun have charms of their own. Breaking 21 out of 25 clays is as much a thrill as scoring 590 in a 50 metre match. As far as hunting is concerned, again, both have even more charms. With a rifle judging trajectory and wind, hitting in a vital area are factors while with a shotgun, the sheer unpredictability of swinging and hitting a bird that flushes, sometimes from right under your feet, is something that you have to do to figure out how difficult it is. Visit us and try both out when you come. There are different kinds of skills involved in both types of shooting and both are equally fun.

Cheers!

[TC]

Great synopsis. Can only come from a pro.

Cheers

TC

PS : was that invitation ( visit us ....) restricted to Sujay? Just joking !!

[Grumpy]

Well said Mehul - I couldn`t have put it better myself.
Sujay, now try and hit 84% ( 21 ex 25 ) at Trap or Skeet - because you won`t. Even better, try a round of Double Trap.....or for a real laugh FITASC or English Sporting because you won`t hit 84% in your wildest dreams ! Ask Navi how awkward Skeet is as he will be able to tell you. He achieved a remarkable score in his first round of Trap but Skeet proved rather more difficult.....and he has yet to try any form of Sporting. I could take you to a driven Pheasant shoot in Wiltshire which is famous for its` high, fast birds and where where you, as a beginner, would be lucky if you hit 10% of the birds.
Good shooting, `even` with a shotgun takes skill and practice.

[eternalme]

I was reading "one shot one kill" on the subject and I found reference to Enfield 303 as one of the guns which was used for the sniper operations.
Now we all know that that is the rifle which indian police carries till date as oficial rifle with lots of pride :-p .

If at a point of time that particular make was good for the purpose it would be relevant even now ,
Depends upon the range and requirement of the operation, there is nothing called sniper rifle as some one alredy mentined its the customization you add to a plain simple heavy bore rifle (heavy for the range) to make it suitable for concealment,accuracy,suppression etc.
please go through "Illustrated manual of sniper skills" available from amzon for more details.

[eljefe]

Eternalme-
sniper weapons may vary with the role-from the humble 22-yes , thats all they had, to the futuristic and advanced 12.5mm 50BMG,Barret light 50 is a common name in 50 cal rifles- using Raufoss special purpose rounds , to the anti material Denel and Steyr 15.2mm IWS2000 an 18kg bullpup monster, which fires a saboted 320 grn tungsten dart at 4757fps and can take out 40mm armour at 1000m . War time exigencies have pushed many an ordinary weapon to the fore as a sniper rifle,Indeed the Enfield 303 had an avatar as L42A1sniping rifle.Check some posts by Krish about usage of 303 at Bisley long range matches...
Same story with the Springfield '03 in 30-06.
The modern bunch of sniper rifles tend to favour 'in service calibers' like 7.62x51mm-Steyr, Walther,Mauser,Giat, Tokka, FN etc
However, there is a school of thought which suggests that POLICE sniping is different from MILITARY sniping.
POLICE-The ranges are considerably lesser and most times, a shot may be taken in built up areas, therefore, many 'military' calibers may be a tad powerful, with attendant overpenetration.Hence, many snipers in US Police SWAT teams may prefer sniper rifles in 223, 222, 270 etc
However, when it comes to the Military, the sky is the limit wrt caliber /rifle/ special requirements.May range all the way from the specially modified 5.56mm service rifle of the US armed forces, to silenced 7.62mm variants in Stoner platforms, to .300 whisper, to some of the above named models.What doesent change is the training of the man behind the trigger-whether he's squeezing off a shot at 70m at an urban target or reaching out to put the touch on an enemy 2300m away, the rifle and bullet will vary but the skill and science dont change.
Best
Axx