Whats a better Handgun.. Colt or S&W???

[captrakshitsharma]

What is better of two?? Is it just brand loyalty / affinity to a name or there are some logical practical advantages or reliablity service and maintainance issues of one over the other??? (sepcifically A S&W 31-1 .32 J Frame 2in / 3 in and Colt police positive 21/2 inch or colt carry

[TwoRivers]

Pretty much affinity and brand loyalty. Whatever grandpa used to have is the better of the two. Don't think either would present a liability or maintenance issue with the small amount of shooting they are going to see in India; and the caliber in question.

[timmy]

A Colt D Frame (based on the Police Positive) is larger than the S&W J Frame. This is why a Detective Special is a 6 round weapon, as opposed to the 5 rounds a Chief Special will carry (in .38 Special).

If both are in .32, of course, this is not an issue. However, if the shooter's hands are large, the difference may matter. The frames are shaped somewhat differently, as well, and perhaps one will fit the hand better than the other:





My own preference is for a Colt; I like the way the action feels when the weapon is operated, and they fit my larger hands better than do S&Ws. Try both and see what you like best.

Some make something of S&W's locking both at the rear of the cylinder and at the front of the ejector rod, versus the Colt only locking at the rear of the cylinder. You will note, upon examination, that the Colt cylinder turns clockwise -- the hand is on the left side of the star, so the action of the hand in rotating the cylinder pushes the cylinder into the frame. On a S&W, the hand is on the right hand side of the cylinder star, causing it to want to push the cylinder out of the frame when the action is operated, making locking at both front and rear necessary.

What this means is that the S&W requires a lug on the barrel and on short barreled revolvers, this limits the length of the ejector rod, as opposed to the length of the ejector rod on a similar Colt. This means that on a Colt short barreled DA, the empties are pushed further from the cylinder when they are ejected. (This point is made clear by comparing the ejector rod lengths in the pictures above.)

If you are looking at a Colt DA revolver based on the Police Positive design (or, a Python/Official Police in the larger frame, for that matter) here is what you can do to gauge the amount of wear in the action, especially the surface of the hand as it engages the cylinder star:

Very lightly and carefully thumb back the hammer. Try and engage the full cock notch with the least amount of speed and backward motion as possible -- use just enough force to let the sear engage the hammer.

Then, grasp the cylinder lightly and see if the bolt has engaged the cylinder notch, locking the cylinder.

Do this on all 6 chambers.

If you find one or more chambers where the bolt has not engaged the cylinder, this is not cause for alarm -- the Colt action is based on the Belgian Schmidt-Galand design, and uses an "advancing hand." This means that the hand is attached to the trigger, not to the hammer, as on a S&W. As you pull the trigger to fire the weapon, the hand will push the cylinder and rotate it against the bolt.

You can test this yourself by pulling back on the trigger and then trying to rotate the cylinder with your fingers. There should be no play, as the cylinder is held against the bolt when you do this. This is one of the things I like about this design of Colt DAs: The cylinder is always held in the same position when the round is fired, no matter how much "slop" is present in the way the bolt engages the cylinder notches. With actions that don't use an "advancing hand," the cylinder can move as much as the clearance between the bolt and the cylinder notch allows.

So, even if the bolt doesn't fall into a cylinder locking notch as you thumb the hammer back gently, when you pull the trigger, the cylinder will lock as the hand turns the cylinder.

However, you can tell how worn the weapon is by trying this on all six chambers. A newer weapon will usually lock on most, if not all, of the chambers.

This technique may help you as you shop for used revolvers.

I do have a preference, but my advice would be that the money you have budgeted would probably best be used in buying the weapon that's in the best condition.

[ssmickey.32]

Great information Tim... i've tried this on every Revolver i've come across..

but I think... there is just a little modification to it...

Very lightly and carefully thumb back the hammer. Try and engage the full cock notch with the least amount of speed and backward motion as possible -- use just enough force to let the sear engage the hammer.

Then, grasp the cylinder lightly and see if the bolt has engaged the cylinder notch, locking the cylinder.

Do this on all 6 chambers.

If you find one or more chambers where the bolt has not engaged the cylinder, this is not cause for alarm -- the Colt action is based on the Belgian Schmidt-Galand design, and uses an "advancing hand." This means that the hand is attached to the trigger, not to the hammer, as on a S&W. As you pull the trigger to fire the weapon, the hand will push the cylinder and rotate it against the bolt.

You can test this yourself by pulling back on the trigger and then trying to rotate the cylinder with your fingers. There should be no play, as the cylinder is held against the bolt when you do this.

When you cock the hammer manually i.e. in single action, you've got to apply 'a little drag' to the cylinder too. You apply the drag, say from left hand, while cocking through right hand thumb.

I saw Colt Detective Special and tested the timing check procedure. If 'a little drag' was not there the cylinder would click into the notch... but in the presence of 'a little drag' the cylinder would not click into the notch i.e. the revolver was out of time...

This can be seen here in the video.

however there was one S & W model 31-1 in the shop too.. i tried the same with drag... it worked perfectly in 5 chambers however there was a very little play in one of the chamber.

Now, my question is, if u apply the drag on cylinder again and again to check, will the revolver go out of time???? I have asked this question in the video comments too but it has not yet been answered.

Please clarify...

Best regards..

ssmickey.32

[timmy]

ssmickey:

I've never used the finger drag method mentioned by you or in the video, tho I will grant that doing this would also be an additional technique that could be used. As I've described doing this, the inertia of the cylinder, if the cocking is done slowly enough, has always been sufficient to turn up a problem. However, dragging a finger or thumb would work. The video doesn't say much about it, but I would think that only a very light pressure would be necessary (if at all) as long as the weapon isn't cocked too hard.

I don't see how doing this once or twice, if a light pressure is used, would have any effect on a revolver, at least, on one in good condition.

I have never done this procedure on a S&W, because I never bought one. (The one I do own was inherited) So I did not feel qualified to speak, having no experience re: S&W.

I'd also mention again that, with a Colt, the advancing hand allows even DAs that fail this test to operate safely and reliably, unless the weapon is quite worn.

Revolvers, especially DA revolvers, do have lots of small, critical wear surfaces that make the system work. Many of these rely on oblique angels of interaction - just think of the way the hand pushes against the cylinder star, with all of the sliding of surfaces. Consider also that the hand works at a mechanical disadvantage also. It's a wonder a DA revolver lasts as long as it does!

-- Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:58 --

I should have also mentioned, regarding the overall comparison between the Colt and the S&W, that the S&W, being a smaller frame weapon, is a little more concealable than the larger Colt. One has to make their own assessment here, whether the extra round of the Colt is worth the extra bulk, tho compared to a semi-auto pistol, all of these DA revolvers are relatively bulky and clumsy to conceal.

Also, because of the way the locking systems work on these, the S&W unlocks the cylinder for a reload by pushing the locking button forward, where on the Colt, it must be pulled back, which is a little more difficult to do quickly.

[Vikram]

Tim,

Thanks for the little education. Slightly off the tangent from the OP, which one do you think is more durable,a revolver or a pistol?I know just a broad question.Only when you have time and feel inclined to answer.Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

[captrakshitsharma]

I did post this question and still unclear which is more hardy and durable?? Came across a Colt detective special and a S&W 3 1-1 .32 j frame well 8-10 of em to be more accurate and seems the dealer has some more hidden in a corner or safe... and yeah a.357 magnum but in 6 inch barell . like the S&W snubbie as it seemed more concealable due cylinder and frame size. The dealer also has it in price range of 4.75 to 5.5 lakhs for NIB kinds . What do u guys reckon for a NIB.. how much should i give him as my offer / last qoute i should agree on

[timmy]

I don't think that you will see a lot of difference in how long either a Colt or S&W will last. If you are looking at used weapons, the one that will last the longest and be most reliable for you is the one that has had the most care from its previous owner, which will be the one in the best shape. That's going to be the one that will last longest for you.

If the Detective Special is in .38 Spl, I would grab it, because .38 Spl will beat any of the .32s as a carry weapon hands down, and in a Colt you don't give up a round to have it.

Vikram, I'd vote for a pistol as regards durability: for instance, my CZ 50 semi-auto is a blowback and quite simple. A well-made pistol on the Browning 1911 system should last forever. Revolvers have so many intricate small parts that have a lot of wear, especially under hard use.

However, the one thing about a pistol is reliability[b/], connected to the magazine. I would feel fairly confident about leaving a loaded magazine in my 1911 and having it function after a long storage period, but with the others, I would not.

Nothing like this affects my Detective Special. It is always loaded and has been for over two decades now, and I safely expect that it will function properly even after two more decades, in which case it will then be someone else's worry!

So if I was a policeman or someone needed to carry everyday -- someone who always had my hands on the weapon and would think about rotating magazines, a pistol would be my choice.

If I was just an ordinary joe that had a weapon about the house, I'd choose a revolver.

[captrakshitsharma]

Thx timmy and elaborate on it.. why an averag joe.. (god forbid ever has to use my weapon and take a life..) should have a revolver and why a cop should carry a pistol??
.

[Mark]

To answer the original question, I'll second that the best approach is to purchase whatever gun is in the better condition, provided both feel good in your hand. For daily carry with limited use, everything else equal I'd probably choose the Smith as it is smaller but it is strictly a personal preference, like how much jam to spread on toast...

[timmy]

why an averag joe . . . should have a revolver and why a cop should carry a pistol?

The thing that could cause trouble on a semi -auto pistol is the magazine spring -- some will lose tension if they are kept loaded. When the tension of the magazine spring is insufficient, some semi-autos will not feed reliably.

This can be avoided if one has several extra magazines. Keeping the ones used for carry loaded and the spares empty, a regular rotation that ensures that all magazines have time in the relaxed position will help the springs maintain tension.

A policeman or someone who carries all the time will do this as a matter of course, because handling the gun is a near-daily task and it won't be forgotten.

On the other hand, the average joe keeps the gun by the bedside or in a nightstand drawer and doesn't handle it that often. In such cases, it's easy to forget to regularly rotate and exercise magazines. So a DA revolver in such circumstances is always ready to fire, but no springs are in tension as it sits in the drawer or under the pillow.

I'm sure you recognize that all of these observations are generalizations. They may apply or may not to any individual case. The individual must decide what they want to use the weapon for and how they will use it, and then make the choice that they want.

For instance, I really like the semi-auto pistol. I did lots of shooting. When I began taking my pistols with me into the field, I quickly found out that they were very inconvenient in the field. I didn't have a lot of money and the pistols threw my precious brass all over the countryside. Brass is very mischievous and clever. If you shoot afield, thrown brass will find every sagebrush and gopher hole and hide from you, so that 9/10s of your shooting experience will be on your hands and knees, digging through the bushes.

A revolver, on the other hand, is neatly emptied into your hand and the brass thrown into your backpack to be reloaded again and again.

I cast my own bullets and used very light loads so the brass would last and last, but this was of no avail if it was scattered over the countryside, so revolvers made better sense -- which is how I began to enjoy old Colt DA revolvers.

My point, after all this rambling, is to think through what you need to do and how you will do it, and then choose something you like that's suited to the task. My observations only are things to consider -- in the end, like Mark says, the fun thing about guns is getting what you like, just because you like it.

[Sakobav]

timmy

Great write up

thanks

[HydNawab]

I have always preferred the colts to the smith and wessons but then again, I am no expert.

I am strictly talking about revolvers here.

[marksman]

There are people in India who would set the S&W right if the timing went off but I doubt if any one can repair a Colt with the same problem. I'd rather one bought a used S&W then a badly used Colt. Colt mechanism and lock work is far superior though, but then again S&W has lesser moving parts.
Marksman

[HydNawab]

You force me to agree Marksman.

But still, I would prefer my gun to have snake names like Python, Cobra, Anaconda, King Cobra and so on that the S&W model numbers 31-1, 19.....(Not that it matters)

Cheers

Ashar