Educate an American! Languages of India..

[Steve007]

Recently I spoke to a business fellow in India who called to order a business book I had written. He later sent me some comments on my book and reviewed it favorably (favourably). I was struck by his excellent writing skills,as I frequently am by the posts here. India isn't exactly a major market for me (though I may take steps to change that in the future),but whenever I speak to someone In India, their English is pretty good (with some exceptions).

I looked up the languages of India (no point in bothering you guys if I can figure it out on my own), and was quite surprised with the huge numbers of languages spoken! 22 languages, 30 dialects? Bodo, Bengali, Sanskrit, Urdu, Hindi, Marathi, Nepali, Kannada, Punjabi....it just goes on and on.

I have to ask. How does this work for you? Do most people speak English? How many languages do most people speak? How about on vacations or trips where you go from one part of the country to another? What language is the national anthem in, and do most people speak it? How about newspapers? Or does everyone just converse in English, as God intended? (this is a joke).

No criticism intended. Just seems a little, uh, unusual to me.

Thanks for your reply.

[Vikram]

Your caution is understandable and your interest laudable.

The answer lies in India's history.India for most part was a conglomeration of various linguistic and ethnic nationalities.It has never been a homogenous society. Even though India has been unified and divided at different points of time by different rulers,from the sub-continent and without, the local languages and cultures were allowed to continue intact until the advent of European colonialism. As the country was unified to a large extent and the principalities and kingdoms had to transact with the new political actors, need for a common language arose.We also need to understand that the colonial enterprise was also about cultural homogenisation.Do a bit of google search on Thomas Babington Macaulay. English became the official language and it continued into Independent India.

The nature of Independent India was well deliberated by the leadership of the Freedom Movement and it was to be a federation that allows the co-existence of all the diverse cultures of India and all are to have equal status and also special protection for minorities. Unity in diversity is the motto.The federating units, States at provincial level, were organised and reorganised mostly on linguistic basis.Hence, you will see that the major language speakers have a state of their own. Though Hindi is the official language, the secondary official language English is the common denominator.Also, value of English education is well recognised so there is a great deal of importance attached to English learning especially in the towns and cities.You will find increasing levels of usage in English commensurating with the type of education one received.
However, as I said, the idea was also to retain and preserve regional and vernacular languages.Typically, all students mandatorily learn English,Hindi and their mother tongue until their primary and high school education.In some models,they may learn one more Indian language other than the ones mentioned.In fact, a great majority of students in the rural areas learn other subjects like science,maths,history etc in the medium of their mother tongue.Though that is changing fast.I changed to English medium only when I was an undergrad.

Now that I bored you with my ramblings, time to answer your specific questions.

A lot of people speak English with varying degrees of proficiency.You will find many many speaking it in cities and towns and considerably less in rural areas.Most people who had schooling are familiar with a minimum of three languages.The National Anthem was originally written in a very Sanskritised Bengali,Bengali being spoken by the people of the Eastern state of Bengal.I have no idea if it is commonly spoken.I would think only among very advanced users of that language,that too only for academic exchanges.

Re news papers, a lot of news papers in vernacular languages came into existence by the mid 19th century.The purpose was to spread the nascent ideas of social reformations and later the ideas of Freedom Movement.The traditions continued into Post-Independent India and you will find that almost all major languages have multiple news papers and are widely in circulation.

Anything else you would like to know,please ask.Shall be a pleasure and thanks for the interest shown.

Best-
Vikram

[Rottmeister]

Vikram, you forgot Tirths, Lawman, Mr. Prabir Sircar and last but not the least, Rottlord.

[Matchlock71]

Hi Steve,

Where the written language is concerned, then English is king, all across India. Written English-language skills can assure a well paying job with prospects in higher education.

For spoken languages, Hindi is most widely understood in the North, West, East, and many parts of the South. This is not official verbose Hindi, but the simple and easily understood, spoken lingo. It has many different variants, and influences of local languages in different parts of India, but for day-to-day business and travel across India, Hindi is the language to know.

As for the many different languages, those in the north and west are closely related to each other and to Hindi, if you know the latter then you can be easily understood in those parts.

In the Indian Army, officers must know English for technical knowledge etc, but to communicate with troops they must also know simple Hindi. Additionally, officers in certain infantry units strive to learn the local language spoken by their soldiers.

[amk]

At least in Mumbai you can easily get on with life knowing only English.

God forbid, if you ever have any litigation in the Higher and Supreme courts then not knowing English is a curse. High courts and the Supreme court conduct business in English only.

Local and State administrations, police, lower courts, etc. conduct business in the State/regional language. Can you imagine the inconvenience, waste of time, effort, money when matters move up to higher courts? All documents need to be translated!!!

[Rottmeister]

Unity in diversity? It is everywhere in this country, Vikram, only if you don't raise the *Guns* issue.

[Steve007]

well, I must say that this has been interesting and enlightening. Some of Vikram's brief hisory I knew, as India is a major country, and I'm passably well-educated and well-read. I admit that most of my knowledge of Macaulay stopped at being able to recite most of Horatius at the Gate. (A fine poem!)

I have been for many months in other countries where English is a major but not the only language (South Africa, for example),and I get by pretty well, though some not used to American accents thought I sounded like John Wayne (no joke!~).

It seems that I could get by well in India too, especially if I stayed in the larger cities.In Africa, I dated a nice Afrikaans girl (or two) that could translate some things for me,but as I am married these days, I guess I'd be on my own in India.

Thanks for the informative replies.

[xl_target]

Vikram covered most of it very well. The diverse languages can cause problems though. Maybe by relating my personal experiences, I can put things in a clearer light. My father was an officer in the Indian Army and consequently we moved from station to station every few years or so. By the time I finished my higher secondary education (12th grade), I had been to seven different schools. All the schools that I had attended were the so-called "English Medium schools". All of our classes were taught in English. However, a requirement was the you had to take the national language (Hindi) as a second language and usually the local State language as a third language. As my grade level got higher, and the level of complexity of the third language being taught increased, I would have huge issues. Sometimes not even understanding or speaking the language, while classic literature in that language was being taught. Being on the move so often, caused another problem. There are regional accents throughout India and one can often tell a Bengali or Punjabi, etc. by the accent they use when speaking English. I never had a permanent English speaking accent, it would change depending on where we were at the moment. Of course, I would get teased about the accent when I first got to a new school. Just about the time i had taken on the local tones, we would get transferred somewhere else.

Many of my contemporaries can therefore speak, read and write English, Hindi and usually one other language. Now as Matchlock71 said, there are some regional relationships between some of the languages and most of the time one could get by if one knew a similar language. My mother grew up in South India and my father is from Bengal so at first the only language that they had in common was English. At home we spoke English and Bengali with English being the main language. When I was very young, I had an "ayah" or nanny and she only spoke Hindi, so I learned Hindi from her. Ya, I know it sounds strange.

However, in urban India, speaking English, one can get along quite well, especially if you stick to some of the more cosmopolitan cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkata, Bangalore, etc. The biggest problem that you as an American will have will be trying to understand the Indian accents that you will encounter. Some Indians will also have problems understanding your American accent, especially if you speak rapidly. At times, you might find your self having to enunciate your words clearly and try to avoid some of the colloquialisms found in the American idiom. It's really not that big a deal though, as Hollywood movies are quite popular and common American expressions are readily understood by many.

You will find Indians are very hospitable and will welcome you into their homes. Don't get put off if people who you do not know well invite you to their homes for a meal. Even if the home is rather humble, they will gladly share what they have with a smile. You will also find that many Indians are proud of their country and will try to show you India in its best light. However, most will do it without arrogance or jingoism.

I wish you a most enjoyable trip to India if you do go over there.

[Subal das]

in rural Himachal Pradesh, they do not speak English at all, in Kullu valley particularly, people speak: local, Laholi, Punjabi and Hindi like interconnecting language. I think level of English literacy very much reflect the level of education quality in those or another state.

[hamiclar01]

Vikram, you forgot Tirths, Lawman, Mr. Prabir Sircar and last but not the least, Rottlord.

sorry i seemed to have missed the joke. which is .......?

[TenX]

Excellent discussion.. loved the tales...
Will some one cover Hinglish and other dialects too

[Steve007]

Vikram, you forgot Tirths, Lawman, Mr. Prabir Sircar and last but not the least, Rottlord.

sorry i seemed to have missed the joke. which is .......?

I'm glad you said that! I couldn't figure it out either. Thought it might be some arcane Indian humor. Uh, humour..

[Sakobav]

Steve007

Here are some more from India ' you can pre-pone' the meeting I always get laughed at by colleagues here..
Z is pronounced as 'Zaid' no 'Zeee' sounded like G.

0 = Zero not ' O- as the letter'
The above two caused lot of confusion when US returned professor was teaching us..then there are local accents as Xl pointed out to some pronounce M as 'Yum' and MMF force was 'Yum Yum Force'. We used to purposely request a teacher to spell minimum Yum i Yun i thankfully she had a good sense of humor and started doing the same to us

My favorite in US was Toilet called Restroom and the habit of stunning ladies ' I shall give you a ring' meant will call you back....typical response was 'isnt it bit early for a ring' .

going to Mcdonalds asking for sauce meant Ketchup or at Krogers asking for 'Lady Fingers' instead of Okra still remember the strange look followed by laughter riot when clerk called others to help her out.


Best

[xl_target]

Don't forget the Bengali pronunciation of "V". It's pronounced "Bhi". For example, when walking up to the bar, a Bengali would say "I'd like a glass of Bhodka. Or ‘vet’, ‘wet’ and ‘bet’ could all be prounounced as "Bhet".

That reminds me of an anecdote: When I went to school in Calcutta and we were made to read Bengali poems in class, I would have my aunt read them to me so I could write out them out phonetically in English. Then I would memorize them and spit them out in class.

[The Doc]

While doing my fellowship in Knee Surgery in Karnataka , since I don't know Kannada or Malayalam, I initially tried to converse with (non English speaking) local people and my patients in English which some understood partly and some could not . One day I tried Hindi and I was in for a pleasant surprise, because though some guys could not speak in Hindi, most understood it well. Thanks to Bollywood movies !

Rp.