IFG Members support for RKBA PIL

[rogerstar]

Suggest that Import of one Firearm be allowed per license holder and a customs duty of 200 or 300% be charged. Fellow members agree or not ?

[goodboy_mentor]

Let me explain, we are approaching the court, not the government and is not a question whether government will listen or not. Court has to give a judgment, which is binding on the government (government HAS to listen to the Hon'ble Court).
Don't worry, anyways government is very clever, it already knows what it is doing, once import restrictions are removed by court, government will, on its own come up with an ordinance to "tax" the firearm imports. Therefore we need not have to give extra unnecessary "suggestions" for imposing customs duty etc. to the court than what is our requirement.

[ravi.sharma]

Hello Everyone,

I understand the import of .177 cal Air Rifle and Air Pistol was also banned but in 2005, the law was amended and .177 cal rifle & pistol was allowed to be imported (correct me, if i am wrong).

The Question?
1) Does any memebr has any knowledge, of why the law was amended?
2) Who (individual or Association) was responsible to initiate this and finally get it through?
3) To whom had they applied?
4) Which court (High/ Supreme) has passed this law?

If any one can shed some light on these questions, it might help us to design the road map for our journey. Again these all questions shall be valid only if my assumption of BAN on Air Guns is correct.

Meanwhile i am really proud to be associated with so many like minded people, whose entusiasum and views are commendable .

The Members, who have still not voted, please vote and keep the count going on.


Ravi Sharma

[Chaudhary]

Yes

[Rottmeister]

Suggest that Import of one Firearm be allowed per license holder and a customs duty of 200 or 300% be charged.

Rogerstar, your post speaks of being a "Bakra" who is instructing the butcher how to use his knife so that it'll cause less pain. We are just demanding something; how the Govt. shall fulfill the demands is their headache. If they quote something atrocious, only then shall we bargain.

[Sujay]

I understand the import of .177 cal Air Rifle and Air Pistol was also banned but in 2005, the law was amended and .177 cal rifle & pistol was allowed to be imported (correct me, if i am wrong).

You are right here, but just to emphasize, it was opened only for members of shooting associations/clubs if the clubs/associations are affiliated to NRAI. Earlier, i.e. before 1985, no such membership was required to import air guns.

The Question?
1) Does any memebr has any knowledge, of why the law was amended?

The ban itself was not given effect through passing of any separate law or notification as far I am aware. I may wrong here but I have extensively searched for the notification (even in Govt press).Firearms were simply moved to 'restricted' category. In 2005, while retaining the category as 'restricted', it put conditions of club membership as eligibility to import. You can see that everything being same, only the condition to import was "eased" ; and no ban was removed.


2) Who (individual or Association) was responsible to initiate this and finally get it through?

There is no formal /official information regarding this. You can thank all those anonymous persons who often work for good cause shunning the limelight. I personally would credit Navin Jindal in at least some measure for all +ve developments.

3) To whom had they applied?

There has been some lobbying with Bureaucrats definitely.


4) Which court (High/ Supreme) has passed this law?

See answer to point no 1.

If any one can shed some light on these questions, it might help us to design the road map for our journey. Again these all questions shall be valid only if my assumption of BAN on Air Guns is correct.

Meanwhile i am really proud to be associated with so many like minded people, whose entusiasum and views are commendable .

The Members, who have still not voted, please vote and keep the count going on.

The ban was not imposed in 1985 due to any public outcry against imported firearms. Similarly, it won't be removed on public demand.

[amit888_2000]

yes, Mr Naveen Jindal, took this issue, and he got all the clearences done from the lobby..........Mr Naveen Jindal gets the credit for getting this done from the govt.....and after he got pallets import also done.....

[Rottmeister]

Sujay has definitely brought into light a few worthwhile points and it's enough to understand why this thread was created. However, since "Firearms" belong to the 'restricted' category, we have hope that the restriction may be eased furthermore. And that's why, the clause of 'import by club members who are not renowned shots yet' and not by all. We are just working towards that.

[ravi.sharma]

Hi Sujay,

Thank you very much for the information, though i think some more insight is required, which we might get from RTI.

Members, voting for "NO", can i request you to please, specify your reasons as well.


Ravi.

[Rottmeister]

Ravi means - "SPECIFY REASONS, NOT YOUR NAMES". However, this is to the mods: can something be done with the polling program so that it shows the username of the voters?

[ravi.sharma]

with Rottlord

[ravi.sharma]

Hello Members,

Its great to see the count has reached to 63, we still need more members to vote. Their is good amount of work going on by few members in the back ground, hope we shall be able to post it in the forum shortly for views & comments.

So members those have still not voted, PLEASE VOTE.


Ravi.

[SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE]

Well, I disagree with the opinion that courts only interfere with "implementation of the law" only, since recently Delhi High Court has given a judgment against the "law" against homosexuality. In my opinion RKBA is a very broad concept and it cannot be achieved in a single step. We should go about with a single step at a time. Getting the import ban restriction lifted, seems to be the first and easiest of them.

Moreover import ban is an executive instruction by Home Ministry and not a law passed by parliament, hence can be very much be challenged in court.

If we file a PIL/Writ/Case (or whatever it is legally needed) supported by facts(by "facts" I do not mean media reports, but statistics obtained using RTI from government departments like Crime Records Bureau etc.) First it has to be RTI application to know about the "facts" & "reasons" for the import ban in 1984/86 or if we can find information from below mentioned links:

http://india.gov.in/documents.php
http://gazetteofindia.org/index.htm
http://supremecourtcaselaw.com/Gazette_ ... ations.htm

Then a PIL can be done to attack those "facts" & "reasons" for the import ban on the following grounds:

1) A legitimate arms license holder is permitted to purchase a firearm from either the IOF or the seconds sale market through arms dealers.The person will ultimately have a firearm, so how does it matter if he buys one in India or legally imports from abroad.

2) Import restrictions serve no purpose as majority of violent crimes are committed by "illegal" firearms either smuggled into the country or country made and not by legally "imported" firearms.(This has to be substantiated from yearly statistics available till date, obtained from Crime Records Bureau under Home Ministry using RTI, as to what percentage of violent crimes(including terrorism) have been committed by legally "imported" licensed firearms AND what percentage of violent crimes(including terrorism) have been committed using illegal firearms either smuggled into the country or country made.)

Once above 2 points are proved, then court can "question" the government as to what this import restriction is actually doing?

We all know it is escalating price of firearms, no competition leading to poor quality weapons/munitions etc. etc.

I unquestionably agree with you GBM,what you have said is truly very logical !


SAM

-- Sat Sep 19, 2009 17:58 --

Why not invite influential pro-gunner's such as Mr.Naveen Jindal and the likes of him, who have and can make a big difference, On the forum to share his views on this topic,following are his contact details;

http://www.naveenjindal.com/contact-us.html

E-mail:([email protected])

Residence Number: (01744222223),his available only after 08.00pm.

Maybe we could even communicate via e-mails to the ministry of home affairs & congress party especially Mr.Rahul Gandhi aswell asking them as to why there is a ban on import of firearms at the same time citing the need to lift-off the ban by stating logical reasons like goodboy_mentor's post,following is the e-mail id and the website of the ministry of home affairs;

(http://www.mha.nic.in/home.asp)

(email: [email protected])

Ministry of Home Affairs, North Block
Central Secretariat
New Delhi - 110 001
Phone: 23092011, 23092161
Fax: 23093750, 23092763


SAM

[Rottmeister]

This is to everyone at IFG, especially, Timmy, SAM, Abhijeet and goodboy_mentor:

I shall be using bits, pieces or as a whole some of your posts as the documents to present to the lawyer, if you allow me, that is. Awaiting response.

P.S. Mods, did you think about the poll program recording the usernames?

[Vikram]

Ravi means - "SPECIFY REASONS, NOT YOUR NAMES". However, this is to the mods: can something be done with the polling program so that it shows the username of the voters?

No.It cannot be done and it is not ethical.

Best-
Vikram