.30 bore rifle?

[Matchlock71]

Is the .30 bore rifle the same as .303?

My father, an ex-serviceman, transferred the licence and weapon in my name before his death. There are no markings on the barrel or the butt, and just below the bolt it says "CAL 30" and the registration number of the rifle.

The licence also says ".30 bore rifle" with the registration number. These are photos of the rifle, can anyone identify it??

rifle_30_bore.jpg

rifle_30_bore2.jpg

Sorry for the poor quality photos, but is it a .303? It's been with my family for more than 40 years, unfortunately my father suffered from bouts of dementia and could not tell me about the rifle or the licence before his death, and that licence (transferred in my name) has since expired . I found the rifle, and had it cleaned, but was concerned when I found the expired licence.

I already hold a valid .22 rifle licence, do I submit the .30 bore to the nearest police station, and then re-apply for the licence. Or if it is a prohibited .303 then what should I do?

[cottage cheese]

Hi Matchlock,

It appears to be a Lee-Enfield action or at least one derived from it, with a locally fabricated stock. I'm more inclined to think its a former Lee-Enfield (Military) because of the loading bridge.

As to the bore...I can't be sure- it could be rebored to 30-06(?) - that may explain the lack of a magazine.

If it is indeed .303 then you are in possession of a PB, for which you'll need to make a application for transfer under inheritance/heirloom basis- this, I believe, is only afforded by the MHA.

You may be required to deposit the rifle while this is being processed.

regards,
cc

[Matchlock71]

Hi CC,

Thanks for the info. Yes the licence says explicitly "non-automatic".

What penalty do I pay for the expired licence?

[cottage cheese]

Hi CC,

Thanks for the info. Yes the licence says explicitly "non-automatic".
What penalty do I pay for the expired licence?

Hi matchlock,

The non-automatic status would be irrelevant if the bore is indeed .303- The specific calibre is specified as a PB in Schedule I, category 1(c), Arms Rules 1962

another .30 bore would of course bring it into the realm of NPB...which simplifies the matter. Just pay a nominal penalty(fine) and thats it.

regards,
cc

[Matchlock71]

Okay thanks. Will post updates later.

[timmy]

Matchlock: from what I can see of your pictures, my guess would be a No. 1 Mk III SMLE (Lee Enfield). I would further guess that the woodwork is the original military issue that has been remodeled: The fore end and front hand guard have been cut down and the buttstock reshaped to provide a pistol grip, and then a roll over comb has been added. If you have the weapon in front of you and this is the case, this should e visible.

Check the butt stock socket (the metal band between the butt stock and fore end, above the trigger. If this has not been ground off, it would give a fair indication of what this rifle was originally.

If the woodwork has been modified as I have guessed, then it is probably likely that someone who would modify the rifle by reworking the wood probably was trying to remodel the rifle on a budget, and thus probably didn't rebarrel it or rechamber it. In this case, it would be in .303

However, all of this is just guesswork and assumption, and about the best I can do with the pictures you've attached.

[Matchlock71]

Check the butt stock socket (the metal band between the butt stock and fore end, above the trigger. If this has not been ground off, it would give a fair indication of what this rifle was originally.

Some more close-ups:

sp07^006.jpg

sp07^007.jpg

sp07^010.jpg

"CAL 30" and the registration number of the rifle are on this butt stock socket.

[cottage cheese]

Well it is indeed a Lee-Enfield No1 MkIII that's seen some major treatment some time in its life.

From your description and from your fathers service background, I now think it probably was rebored by some unit armorer for 30-06 or something. From the last pic, I gather that the magazine well is plugged with what appears to be wood...so it would be a single shot - somewhat logical as 30-06 shots would not feed from 303 magazines.

As timmy mentioned, what kind of markings can you see on the right face of the butt stock socket? - It would help somewhat.

regards,
cc

[Matchlock71]

As timmy mentioned, what kind of markings can you see on the right face of the butt stock socket? - It would help somewhat.

"CAL 30" and the registration number of the rifle....that's all. You can make out part of the registration number in the second pic.

I gather that the magazine well is plugged with what appears to be wood

Yes it is wood.

I now think it probably was rebored by some unit armorer for 30-06

I hope so, it would solve many problems.

[TwoRivers]

Just one point. "Reboring" means boring, reaming, and re-rifling the barrel to a larger caliber. So you can't rebore from .303 to .300. "Rechambering" means enlarging the chamber while the barrel caliber is retained. Rechambering a .303 to .30-06 would be ill advised. It would be inaccurate, and the Lee action is not strong enough for the .30-06 for any length of time. Not that exactly that hasn't likely been done. A chamber cast would help identify what cartridge the rifle is chambered for. Trying to chamber a .30-06 round could also help solve the puzzle. It could possibly be chambered for the old .30 Purdey Fl. N.E. round, a minimally altered version of the .30-40 Krag cartridge.

[cottage cheese]

Just one point. "Reboring" means boring, reaming, and re-rifling the barrel to a larger caliber. So you can't rebore from .303 to .300. "Rechambering" means enlarging the chamber while the barrel caliber is retained. Rechambering a .303 to .30-06 would be ill advised. It would be inaccurate, and the Lee action is not strong enough for the .30-06 for any length of time. Not that exactly that hasn't likely be done. A chamber cast would help identify what cartridge the rifle is chambered for. Trying to chamber a .30-06 round could also help solve the puzzle. It could possibly be chambered for the old .30 Purdey Fl. N.E. round, a minimally altered version of the .30-40 Krag cartridge.

My apologies....! ...ever so often we go by common usage that we forget what we are actually saying!

Allow me to make my correction - Re-barreled.

However with the kind of insane, unsafe things done to guns in India by gunsmiths/armorers/butchers... who knows what kind of nasty things may have been done to a 303 barrel in cases like this.

My assumption that its a .30-06 is simply because that's the only NPB 30cal rifle ammo that is and was readily available... more so for someone in the services. Two rivers - you could be right about the .30 Purdey or 30-40.... only as to why remains the question because one would have to factor in ammo availability.

Well a simple chamber cast is in itself a major hurdle in our country. Match lock do you have any left over ammo or casings? That may solve the puzzle.

Another possibility is it was a 303 and deliberately endorsed as a 30cal to bypass the PB restriction... 40 years ago this would've been a walk over.... I'm hoping this isn't the case.

[shooter50]

A few things which follow from what has appeared above
1. The pics reveal a Lee Enfield No. 1 action
2. A rifle with a bore .303 cannot be rebored to a 30-06
3. if the licence has 30 cal endorsed on it you may only deposit the firearm in the nearest police station and apply for a second weapon license
4. For your personal information or if you need to use the gun and after you have completed step 3 try chambering the rifle with a .303 empty and then with a 30-06 empty. This shall give you a fair idea of its chambering. It could be a .303 because many servicemen and police officers did hold licenses for .303 calibre which is a PB now. It could be a 30-06 also because during WW II Lee enfield Mk 1 chambered and barreled for the 30 06 were sent to India.
5.If all this doesnt work, then take a chamber cast. It is not that difficult, PM me and I shall tell you how, but try out step 4 first.
6. If it turns out to be a .303 apply for a PB amendment by having the DM forward the application to the MHA Govt of India (Not easy)

[winnie_the_pooh]

Converting a 303 Lee Enfield to 30-06 would be pure lunacy.SAAMI recommended max pressure for 303 British is 49,000 (Mod) PSI MAx pressure and for the 30-06 60,000 psi. http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

It would also require modifications to the bolt head to make the rifle feed a rimmless cartridge.

I would guess that a Lee Enfield action would in all probability blow up if converted to 30-06.

This sort of wood dowel is generally seen in rifles converted to .410 bore musket.

As far as the caliber designation as .30 is comcerned,it would not be for the first time a 303 has been labelled as such to enable it to be entered as a NPB rifle.

You went up a row and got the pressure for the .30-30. (Mod)

[cottage cheese]

Converting a 303 Lee Enfield to 30-06 would be pure lunacy.SAAMI recommended max pressure for 303 British is 42000 PSI MAx pressure and for the 30-06 60,000 psi. http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

It would also require modifications to the bolt head to make the rifle feed a rimmless cartridge.

I would guess that a Lee Enfield action would in all probability blow up if converted to 30-06.

This sort of wood dowel is generally seen in rifles converted to .410 bore musket.

As far as the caliber designation as .30 is comcerned,it would not be for the first time a 303 has been labelled as such to enable it to be entered as a NPB rifle.

I doubt most of the butchers in our country don't know what SAAMI is....

Quite possible the issue is with endorsement.