Bull barrel v fluted barrel

[nagarifle]

Which would the member of the forum prefer? Bull Barrel or the fluted one, please give your opinions and reasoning.
Here is my understanding. In a nutshell that is.
Bull barrel: are thickish, dissipates heat slowly can be heavy then fluted one.
Fluted barrel: dissipates heat quickly and lighter then bull barrel.

There is a school of thought that fluted barrel is more accurate then the Bull barrel, however I do not subscribe to this thought as all that is different is the overall thickness of the barrel.

[MoA]

Interesting question...

For a given Diameter of barrel not bore... a un fluted barrel will always be stiffer than a fluted.
For a given weight of a barrel... a fluted barrel 'might' be stiffer.

Fluted barrels tend to dissipate heat quicker than un fluted barrels due to a larger surface area, while unfluted barrels tend to heat slower than fluted ones for a given diameter.

Then comes the question of accuracy.. that depends on whether the barrel is cut rifled or button rifled, and the grade of steel.
Button rifled barrels tend to be fluted after rifling, which can cause the bore under the flutes to expand slightly or in other words distort.

Bottom line... you dont see bench rest shooters with fluted barrels, even though fluted barrels look cool.

Me personally, I have owned fluted barrels... and I for one will not be getting one anytime soon. Accuracy over looks.

There was an interesting interview with Krieger of Krieger barrels that might be on you tube still where he discusses this in great detail. Plus Google will also turn up tons of info...

[timmy]

I believe that, in general, it would be correct to say that the stiffer the barrel, the more potential it has for accuracy.

Regarding the stiffness of a fluted barrel, the issue of stiffness would have to do how the fluting is arranged, and the principle would be similar to any other long, relatively slender cross-sectional shape that is solid or built up. For instance, a truss is perhaps almost as stiff as a solid of the same exterior shape, but it is a whole lot lighter in weight. So the issue becomes the stiffness of the barrel vs. the weight.

Say, perhaps, a 1 1/2" diameter fluted barrel is compared to a solid 1" diameter barrel in both weight and stiffness -- perhaps there is a point where the fluted barrel is able to compare with the solid barrel in this weight vs stiffness ratio, but I'm not enough of an engineer to know the details about this.

Have a look at this site: http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/ba ... rifles.htm

There are a number of very interesting articles there on the subject of barrel rigidity and accuracy.

[nagarifle]

I always find that if you want your views to be accepted as proven facts then get some others with the same view and quote them. (For or against.)

For our purpose we need to arrive at the truth of the matter, so after doing some goggling this is what i came across.

I quote the link and a Para taken from the link below, as they make an easy and interesting reading , shading some light on the subject.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/R ... luting.asp

“In conclusion, a regular plain barrel is a lot stiffer than a fluted barrel of the same outside diameter; however, a fluted barrel is a lot stiffer than a regular barrel of the same weight. Fluting will definitely dissipate heat quickly. And it is not because the surface area is increased; it is because the heat is allowed to reach the outside temperature at a faster rate by removing materials. If your bull barrel becomes unbearably hot on the surface, it is safe to assume that the bore temperature is at a point where it can literally dissolve soft materials. This will damage your bore in the long run.

So if you wish to flute your barrel, it should be because you want to reduce the overall weight of your rifle and you want your barrel to cool at a faster rate. Fluting your barrel with the belief that it will add stiffness just doesn't make any scientific sense.”

http://www.fulton-armory.com/fluting.htm

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ba ... luting.htm

some say that accuracy is decreased by fluting yet others say not really. The Accuracy factor with fluted barrel still remains out of reach. Even barrel makers on one hand say that accuracy is affected and some other on the other hand say no. Accuracy it seems, to be hard one to pin down.
I am still unable to find any support for “ fluted barrels affecting accuracy.” Many opinions are there but facts are still avoiding me.

[MoA]

Well let me muddy the waters even more...

The new trend for getting a stiffer barrel at a lighter wieght is:

Carbon fiber wrapped barrels...

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek092.html

I have yet to come across one though...

[timmy]

The Accuracy factor with fluted barrel still remains out of reach. Even barrel makers on one hand say that accuracy is affected and some other on the other hand say no. Accuracy it seems, to be hard one to pin down.

I think it would be reasonable to expect that part of this depends on the process used to flute the barrel. If boring and rifling occur after fluting, I think one might expect better accuracy than if the fluting is done after boring and rifling, and properly stress relieving the blank after fluting would be a must. Otherwise, stresses in the barrel would occur as the it is heated by repeated shots and repeated shots would string on the target.

[nagarifle]

Thanks MoA
for muddying the muddy waters even more.

i did come across some fluted barrels in F-Class line up see the link below. Then again this guys hav’t been told that fluted barrel are not so accurate.

http://www.freewebs.com/fclassuk/

second pic down of shooters lined up about 3 fluted barrels seen . i think
as for new technology to make a barrel stiffer that sounds good.

I have also come across some interesting links below.

http://www.probed2000.com/flute.htm
and this one promises accuracy

HI Timmy

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, the only thing regarding fluted barrel is the accuracy factor. Check out the below link and this is one man said about fluted barrel regarding accuracy.

http://www.rgrifles.com/page8/page18/page18.html

"Theories aside, I have some first hand experience with one barrel on an AR-15. It started as a one inch diameter Model 1 stainless. It shot good, with some loads making one hole, 5 shot groups at 100yds. It was very front heavy though. A machinist friend put 5, pretty deep flutes in it. This made a big difference in balance and weight and it still shoots with the same great accuracy. Just FWIW."

From what you and MoA have said and what i come across regarding fluting barrels in respect to accuracy is that:

I think it would be reasonable to expect that part of this depends on the process used to flute the barrel. If boring and rifling occur after fluting, I think one might expect better accuracy than if the fluting is done after boring and rifling, and properly stress relieving the blank after fluting would be a must. Otherwise, stresses in the barrel would occur as the it is heated by repeated shots and repeated shots would string on the target.

i agree with this and also would like to add that fluting has to be done by someone who knows how to do it. the barrel should be thick one.

[timmy]

I've got to admit that some of those fluted barrels do look pretty interesting. And then, the carbon fiber barrels are also interesting. It would be nice to have the advantages of a stiff, thick bull barrel in something that was very light. Cabela's, a big sporting goods store here in the USA used to sell a carbon fiber Ruger 10-22 barrel that looked pretty interesting, but they don't carry it anymore.

The problem with this stuff is that so many of the gun magazines are shilling for some manufacturer that you don't know what you can believe, and the web sites are no different -- maybe even worse. One day, someone is touting this or that accessory as the greatest thing in the world and the next day, it disappears. The entities that have the resources and the motivation to provide unbiased and scientific tests of expensive components are few and far between. (Here, I'm speaking of something like that fellow who did the .32 ACP ammo test that we discussed here awhile back. That's the kind of testing that's really useful in comparing various products.)

Nagarifle, thanks for the links -- some interesting stuff to digest there!

[Timnorris]

Bull barrels are more accurate.............the reason being they are heavy which makes it more steady and ................second is that it retains heat which is another reason for accuracy ....that is the reason why target rifles have bull barrels

Tim

[MoA]

F-Class isnt Bench rest... very different discipines.
Hmm... I wonder if the gentleman shooting with the fluted barrel is winning the matches...

I know that krieger rifles his barrels after fluting, if the the customer insists. However doesnt see the point.
LW doesnt reccomend it..

Border again pre-flutes a.ka. Krieger..

Me personally... would rather have an un-fluted barrel.

With bytton rifled barrels that are fluted, as mentioned they need to be stress relived and then crygenically treated. Moreover the quality of the steel is very important.

At the end of the day... it really boils down to personal preference iMHO

[nagarifle]

have to go out as uncles have arrived so will be b ack

-- Sat May 30, 2009 14:31 --

......second is that it retains heat which is another reason for accuracy ....that is the reason why target rifles have bull barrels
Tim

Tim
hot barrels can be a curse, retain g heat does not improve accuracy as you have stated. if that was the case then all barrels should come warped in asbestos. why do you think that machine guns etc are either air cooled or water cooled, in GPMG the barrel is changed after firing 600/1000 rounds of ammo? just a simple way to say heat can be a killer to a barrel.

F-Class isnt Bench rest... very different discipines.
Hmm... I wonder if the gentleman shooting with the fluted barrel is winning the matches...

so would i,

I know that krieger rifles his barrels after fluting, if the the customer insists. However doesnt see the point.
LW doesnt reccomend it..

Border again pre-flutes a.ka. Krieger..

i like Border barrels,

Me personally... would rather have an un-fluted barrel.

With bytton rifled barrels that are fluted, as mentioned they need to be stress relived and then crygenically treated. Moreover the quality of the steel is very important.

At the end of the day... it really boils down to personal preference iMHO

yes i go for that, a good maker of barrel and if done in the right way fluted barrel does not/ should not decrease in accuracy. after all said and done as Timmy say we need more solid evidence to say either way. if in doubt stay with bull if want to look sexy go for flutes.

[MoA]

Sexy....
Glass beaded barrels..

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