Haha.. I knew you would notice this. safety is always the first priority. firing was done towards a hillock (not visible in the video).
I remember the rule.. know what you are shooting at and know whats behind what you are shooting at.
diskaon.
How to clean a MUZZLE LOADER
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Mack The Knife
- We post a lot
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- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:23 pm
Haha? This is hardly a laughing matter. If the hillock isn't visible due to the vegetation, how sure were you there wasn't a person or animal that you couldn't see?
PLEASE be more careful in future and practice gun safety rather than just learning the rules by heart.
Back to the muzzle loader discussion.
PLEASE be more careful in future and practice gun safety rather than just learning the rules by heart.
Back to the muzzle loader discussion.
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penpusher
Re: How to clean a MUZZLE LOADER
Also the backstop should be able to stop the projectile.Merely having a hillock is not enough.A hillock would have stone/rocks along with earth.What if the bullet strikes a rock and then ricochets?
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shadowphaxone
- Almost at nirvana
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- Location: Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala
Re: How to clean a MUZZLE LOADER
Really informative thread.
Thanks
Thanks
There are no limits to a man's curious intelligence if he is determined to succeed...
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timmy
- Old Timer
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- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:03 am
- Location: home on the range
Re: How to clean a MUZZLE LOADER
I need to get busy and get pics of my long arms and share them.
Right now, I have one muzzleloader, it is an Italian-made copy (sort of) of the old US Hawken rifles of the mountain West fur trapping days. I say "sort of, because these rifles are not really like the original Hawkens, they only resemble them in a loose way.
In the USA today, the common Hawken-type calibers are .50 and .54. Mine is a .58 caliber. Note that these are rifled -- not smoothbore.
US hunting laws vary from state to state. One of the most stringent set of laws are those of Pennsylvania. IIRC, that state requires the use of open (not "peep," or orifice sights) and the use of a flintlock ignition to qualify for the primitive hunt seasons, which are more advantageous. Other states have varying regulations. Now, most blackpowder hunting rifles resemble a cartridge arm, in that they have straight line striker ignition and open a bit like a bolt action to place the primer. The primer is in the rear (as opposed to the traditional side) of the chamber. However, they are still muzzleloaders, for that's where the powder and projectile is loaded.
Many of these new style inline muzzleloaders use a shotgun primer, rather than the traditional cap.
The powder often used today is not true black powder, but is a substitute that has similar burning and pressure/power characteristics. It is loaded by VOLUME: for instance, if your rifle uses a 100 grain load of black powder, you use the volume used to measure out 100 grains to measure out the substitute.
Additionally, there are "pellets" that are solid cylinders of this black powder substitute available -- usually a pair of these will comprise a load.
Bullets have progressed from the traditional patched round ball. The next step was a heavier cylindrical slug having narrow driving bands and a taper that allowed them to be pushed into the muzzle, but with a body which allowed the rifling to be engraved in the bands as the slug was rammed down on the powder. Now, may use sabots, a plastic cup something like a shotgun shell cup, but which has an outside diameter of the muzzleloader barrel and the inside of which contains a smaller diameter slug, often a .44 caliber heavy revolver bullet.
The advantage to the heavy bullet-sabot shooting is that one can get approximately the same power out of a .50 caliber rifle as would normally be expected from a .54 or .58, and the .54 sabot shooting rifle is even more powerful.
There is a choice to be made here, however. A heavy slug or sabot shooting rifle will generally like a fast twist, about 1 turn in 24" or so. Traditional round ball shooting calls for a slower twist for best accuracy, such as the very common 1 turn in 72" or 1 turn in 60". Then there are compromise twists like mine, which is often encountered, of 1 turn in 48". This rate seeks to get useable accuracy from both round ball and slug.
Laws like those in Pennsylvania are intended to outlaw the modern types of weapons and return the more advantageous muzzle loading season to the use of the more challenging "primitive" arms.
My muzzleloader is, as I said, in .58 caliber, which is somewhat uncommon here. However, the old Civil War era rifles were .58 caliber, so this size still hangs on. However, the sabots, propellent pellets, and many slug styles are not available in this caliber.
With the deterioration of my eyesight in old age, I removed the open style rear sight (It was attached by a pair of screws -- the real ones were dovetailed into the barrel) with a base meant for a Marlin 336 .30-30 lever action rifle. I drilled another hole to match the spacing of the screws in the barrel and attached the base. Then I affixed a BSA red dot optical non-magnifying sight meant for handguns.
All of these kinds of muzzleloading rifles are generally 100 yard types of hunting weapons. The projectiles have an arched trajectory and they will run out of the energy needed for larger game quite quickly. Round balls shed speed much faster than conical projectiles. A .50 caliber round ball might leave the muzzle at around 1700 fps and have around 1200 ft-lbs of energy. Given that many consider 1000 ft-lbs of energy to be the minimum for reliably taking deer, you can see that 100 yards is a reasonable limit. conical projectiles and even more, sabotted revolver bullets will retain energy better, but you still aren't looking at much more range, IMO.
If you get a smoothbore muzzleloader, I feel that you will need to accept a shorter shooting distance in your hunting generally, since these are not as accurate as a rifled muzzleloader.
I do use pretty much the same cleaning technique outlined earlier. I am going to get a plastic tube to attach to the nipple, however -- then you don't need to take the gun apart to stick the barrel breach into the hot water -- you just put the end of the tube into it.
I use patched round balls in mine and Pyrodex, a black powder substitute. Mostly, this is because it isn't so easy to get black powder in the USA as it used to be. I also am a huge believer in automatic transmission fluid, which I use for a lot of things, like aluminum parts. You need to take care in oiling up a muzzleloader before putting it away, because too much oil can make ignition unreliable when you do shoot it again later on.
Regarding muzzleloading handguns: I've only owned one: A Ruger Old Army .45. IMO, owning a cap and ball revolver is like cleaning 7 regular single shot muzzleloaders when you are done. The Ruger with round ball is fairly powerful, at about 300 ft-lbs, and the soft lead balls will occasionally pierce a car door. (I've tried this out on junked cars.) So from this perspective, they might make a useable self-defense arm, EXCEPT: they are a large and heavy weapon, with very little concealability. In fact, all of the "normal: size cap and ball revolvers are on the large side for handguns. There are .31 caliber replicas of Colt 1849 pocket pistols and they are quite dandy looking little toys -- very cute. To shoot them, all you need is 0 Buckshot. They have less muzzle energy than a .22 or .25 ACP mouse gun, however.
I do think you could preload a cap and ball and use wax lube to seal the chambers to have a loaded weapon for keeping on the ready for shooting, but as I said, they are big, unwieldy, and not too concealable when they have enough power to be useful.
Having said all of this, I am not a huge black powder aficionado, however I do have fun shooting them from time to time. If you are intrigued by blackpowder shooting or muzzleloader shooting and there's a weapon you fancy that is available, I'd recommend trying it out.
Right now, I have one muzzleloader, it is an Italian-made copy (sort of) of the old US Hawken rifles of the mountain West fur trapping days. I say "sort of, because these rifles are not really like the original Hawkens, they only resemble them in a loose way.
In the USA today, the common Hawken-type calibers are .50 and .54. Mine is a .58 caliber. Note that these are rifled -- not smoothbore.
US hunting laws vary from state to state. One of the most stringent set of laws are those of Pennsylvania. IIRC, that state requires the use of open (not "peep," or orifice sights) and the use of a flintlock ignition to qualify for the primitive hunt seasons, which are more advantageous. Other states have varying regulations. Now, most blackpowder hunting rifles resemble a cartridge arm, in that they have straight line striker ignition and open a bit like a bolt action to place the primer. The primer is in the rear (as opposed to the traditional side) of the chamber. However, they are still muzzleloaders, for that's where the powder and projectile is loaded.
Many of these new style inline muzzleloaders use a shotgun primer, rather than the traditional cap.
The powder often used today is not true black powder, but is a substitute that has similar burning and pressure/power characteristics. It is loaded by VOLUME: for instance, if your rifle uses a 100 grain load of black powder, you use the volume used to measure out 100 grains to measure out the substitute.
Additionally, there are "pellets" that are solid cylinders of this black powder substitute available -- usually a pair of these will comprise a load.
Bullets have progressed from the traditional patched round ball. The next step was a heavier cylindrical slug having narrow driving bands and a taper that allowed them to be pushed into the muzzle, but with a body which allowed the rifling to be engraved in the bands as the slug was rammed down on the powder. Now, may use sabots, a plastic cup something like a shotgun shell cup, but which has an outside diameter of the muzzleloader barrel and the inside of which contains a smaller diameter slug, often a .44 caliber heavy revolver bullet.
The advantage to the heavy bullet-sabot shooting is that one can get approximately the same power out of a .50 caliber rifle as would normally be expected from a .54 or .58, and the .54 sabot shooting rifle is even more powerful.
There is a choice to be made here, however. A heavy slug or sabot shooting rifle will generally like a fast twist, about 1 turn in 24" or so. Traditional round ball shooting calls for a slower twist for best accuracy, such as the very common 1 turn in 72" or 1 turn in 60". Then there are compromise twists like mine, which is often encountered, of 1 turn in 48". This rate seeks to get useable accuracy from both round ball and slug.
Laws like those in Pennsylvania are intended to outlaw the modern types of weapons and return the more advantageous muzzle loading season to the use of the more challenging "primitive" arms.
My muzzleloader is, as I said, in .58 caliber, which is somewhat uncommon here. However, the old Civil War era rifles were .58 caliber, so this size still hangs on. However, the sabots, propellent pellets, and many slug styles are not available in this caliber.
With the deterioration of my eyesight in old age, I removed the open style rear sight (It was attached by a pair of screws -- the real ones were dovetailed into the barrel) with a base meant for a Marlin 336 .30-30 lever action rifle. I drilled another hole to match the spacing of the screws in the barrel and attached the base. Then I affixed a BSA red dot optical non-magnifying sight meant for handguns.
All of these kinds of muzzleloading rifles are generally 100 yard types of hunting weapons. The projectiles have an arched trajectory and they will run out of the energy needed for larger game quite quickly. Round balls shed speed much faster than conical projectiles. A .50 caliber round ball might leave the muzzle at around 1700 fps and have around 1200 ft-lbs of energy. Given that many consider 1000 ft-lbs of energy to be the minimum for reliably taking deer, you can see that 100 yards is a reasonable limit. conical projectiles and even more, sabotted revolver bullets will retain energy better, but you still aren't looking at much more range, IMO.
If you get a smoothbore muzzleloader, I feel that you will need to accept a shorter shooting distance in your hunting generally, since these are not as accurate as a rifled muzzleloader.
I do use pretty much the same cleaning technique outlined earlier. I am going to get a plastic tube to attach to the nipple, however -- then you don't need to take the gun apart to stick the barrel breach into the hot water -- you just put the end of the tube into it.
I use patched round balls in mine and Pyrodex, a black powder substitute. Mostly, this is because it isn't so easy to get black powder in the USA as it used to be. I also am a huge believer in automatic transmission fluid, which I use for a lot of things, like aluminum parts. You need to take care in oiling up a muzzleloader before putting it away, because too much oil can make ignition unreliable when you do shoot it again later on.
Regarding muzzleloading handguns: I've only owned one: A Ruger Old Army .45. IMO, owning a cap and ball revolver is like cleaning 7 regular single shot muzzleloaders when you are done. The Ruger with round ball is fairly powerful, at about 300 ft-lbs, and the soft lead balls will occasionally pierce a car door. (I've tried this out on junked cars.) So from this perspective, they might make a useable self-defense arm, EXCEPT: they are a large and heavy weapon, with very little concealability. In fact, all of the "normal: size cap and ball revolvers are on the large side for handguns. There are .31 caliber replicas of Colt 1849 pocket pistols and they are quite dandy looking little toys -- very cute. To shoot them, all you need is 0 Buckshot. They have less muzzle energy than a .22 or .25 ACP mouse gun, however.
I do think you could preload a cap and ball and use wax lube to seal the chambers to have a loaded weapon for keeping on the ready for shooting, but as I said, they are big, unwieldy, and not too concealable when they have enough power to be useful.
Having said all of this, I am not a huge black powder aficionado, however I do have fun shooting them from time to time. If you are intrigued by blackpowder shooting or muzzleloader shooting and there's a weapon you fancy that is available, I'd recommend trying it out.