"Dog hunting" from a motorcycle...

[timmy]

The recent thread regarding the shooting of a dog with an AK 47, along with a recent post regarding .32 caliber handguns has reminded me of a story -- but as it is not an actual hunting story, I have posted it in this forum.

My Mother had a couple of older brothers, one born in 1907 and one in 1909. These two men had an upbringing that is, perhaps, familiar to those who were raised in rural areas, but may need a bit of explanation to those who are "city people." My maternal Grandparents were truck farmers -- they raised vegetable produce for sale. Living in the country offered boys an interesting scope for learning and some mischief: For instance, during World War 1, while farming along the old Lincoln Highway (the USA's first transcontinental road), they would assail people from Chicago who were out driving their autos on "Gasless Sundays" with rotten eggs. They got caught once, and were hauled in front of my Grandfather by the angry victims of their pranks, who demanded that the boys should be punished. My Grandfather, a man of few words, simply noted that they shouldn't have been driving on Sunday in the first place. On another occasion, the two boys decided to try fishing with dynamite (which was commonly used by farmers in those days for blasting tree stumps from fields -- it was a more innocent time). They had two sticks of dynamite and only one blasting cap. Because one stick of dynamite would be useless if they only used the other one with the blasting cap, they decided to use both. Of course, there were no fish left when they blew up the creek they had targeted for their fishing expedition.

Both of my uncles were very avid hunters. The older one was somewhat of a self-made intellectual, and he concentrated on bird hunting, both upland and waterfowl. The younger uncle, who is the subject of my story, was a very outdoors person and an avid hunter of everything. He was also a natural marksman. My older uncle told me with a sense of awe about how they went duck hunting once. The younger uncle was using a Browning A5 which he had determined had a barrel that was excessively long. So, he sawed off 4" of length. As my older uncle pointed out, this removed all of the choke from the barrel, but this in no way impeded my younger uncle's shooting ability with the gun. Once they went hunting and my younger uncle shot so often that his right shoulder turned black-and-blue, and he simply switched to shooting from the left shoulder with equal deadly effect. (I suppose that in those days, bag limits were not a factor somehow.)

My younger uncle also hunted deer, moose, elk, turkey, Texas hogs, and badger beside upland birds and waterfowl. As a youngster, I recall eating all of this game, which was expertly prepared by his wife. A real treat was the frog legs he would get -- very tasty! For a number of years, his weapon of choice was a Remington 742 semiauto in .30-06. However, he was planning an Alaskan trip and while on an elk hunt in Wyoming, his guide displayed the flat shooting abilities of his new 300 Weatherby Magnum, which he'd just got. My uncle quickly got one of his own for his Alaska hunt.

I also recall his getting the Weatherby very well. My uncle relished taking his friends out to a range and having them shoot it. He would regale us with tails of how some of them were "scoped" with bloody results from the Weatherby's tremendous recoil. I realize now that he was trying to "buffalo" my Dad and after a time, he chivvied my Dad into trying out this fearsome weapon. I don't know whether my uncle knew it or not, but Dad had been part of his regimental target team in the Army before the war, and my uncle's effort to assert superiority failed on that day. However, I was allowed to choose one of my uncle's guns to shoot on that occasion. I chose his legendary A5, and I also choose some slug loads to shoot out of it. For a young boy, it was quite an experience to shoot that thing. I could sense the clicking and clacking of the action and the smoke exiting the ejection port -- it was quite a "bang" for a young kid.

My uncle's first Alaskan hunt was, I believe the year was 1964, and he hunted from Barrow with guides and two planes for polar bear. There were several noteworthy aspects to this hunt. One, of course, was the magnificent pair of rugs (he got both a polar and a grizzly at different times on that trip) that he brought back. Another were the films: While shooting both bears, his guide was standing behind his shoulder, armed with an 8mm movie camera, recording him shooting the polar bear three times. He even had movies of the Inuit folks washing the polar bear hide in a hole cut in the ice over the Arctic Ocean. His polar bear "squared out" at a smidgen over 9 feet. ("squaring" is the average of front paw to front paw and tip to tail measurements.) He told about Fred Bear, the famous archer, who was up there at the same time taking a world record polar bear with a bow. My uncle said that he saw that hide being skinned out also, and said he saw bullet holes in it...

All this is to point out that my uncle was quite a hunter and a fine shot. (I don't suppose that guides put their guns aside for a movie camera for too many clients.) This is a key element to the story of, perhaps, his most amazing shooting feat.

In his younger days, my uncle was also an avid motorcycle rider. His preferred mount was an Indian 74. (1200 cc) As a bit of a motorcyclist myself, he shared a number of stories about that, also. In these days during the Great Depression, my uncle would ride from the family farm far out in the country to his "graveyard" shift in the steel mills. These country roads were gravel farm roads then, and far out in the country, my uncle had to drive past a farm house where three large dogs were kept. Far out in the country, there was no light other than his motorcycle headlight, and these three dogs would chase him every time he went to work in the middle of the night. My uncle stopped and told the farmer owning the dogs that they were a hazard, and that my uncle feared they would get caught in his wheels and flip him off the road. The farmer only laughed at him.

One night, one of my aunts and her husband were visiting the family farm. This uncle worked in a lumber yard and because he had to take the cash to the bank in those dire times, he carried a .32 revolver -- I'm not sure what kind, but I believe it was one of the top-break Iver Johnson types. When they got ready to leave, my uncle asked to borrow this revolver and asked that my aunt and her husband would wait for him to arrive in the next town, planning to follow in a few minutes and return the revolver.

When my uncle got to the farm where the large dogs were, they came out and chased him, as usual. In the middle of the night, my uncle pulled the revolver and emptied it.

My uncle was not completely sure of the results of his shooting. He said that afterwards, he never saw one of the dogs again. A second dog lay dead in the farmer's yard for some time, bloated. The third dog appeared again after awhile, appearing very scrawny, as if he was gut-shot. My uncle said that he could usually see this dog running for the barn during the day, as soon as it heard the sound of the motorcycle.

My uncle lived in Texas when I arrived on the scene. Beside working in a steel mill, he had about 55 acres on which he ran a few cows. In Texas, as in the West, most ranchers are very keen to rid the countryside of any stray dog, since even tame dogs will quickly attach themselves to a pack and engage in depredations on flocks and herds. The story around the small town that his house was near was that, whenever shooting in the countryside was heard, it was usually attributed to my uncle's ridding the area of stray dogs.

I simply cannot imagine being able to discharge a revolver from a motorcycle on a country gravel road in the middle of the night at three dogs and, apparently, score three hits. Times have changed in more ways then one.

[Yaj]

Times have changed in more ways then one.

For the better!

[penpusher]

Times have changed in more ways then one.

For the better!

In what way?

-- Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:45 am --

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 246434.cms

http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/02/stories ... 050100.htm

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2406/ ... 610200.htm

http://www.indiamike.com/india/dogs-cat ... -t29897/7/

http://news.webindia123.com/news/ar_sho ... e=20070305

http://www.screenindia.com/news/chandig ... gs/262381/

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstor ... wsid=22077

http://www.deccanherald.com/CONTENT/May ... 233361.asp

[Yaj]

Times have changed in more ways then one.

For the better!

In what way?

-- Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:45 am --

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 246434.cms

http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/02/stories ... 050100.htm

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2406/ ... 610200.htm

http://www.indiamike.com/india/dogs-cat ... -t29897/7/

http://news.webindia123.com/news/ar_sho ... e=20070305

http://www.screenindia.com/news/chandig ... gs/262381/

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstor ... wsid=22077

http://www.deccanherald.com/CONTENT/May ... 233361.asp

You seemed to be making a point with the links provided. Are you implying that if those incidents occurred as reported there should be a mass culling of stray dogs irrespective of their temperament/disposition?
There are far more murders,rapes, child molestations committed by humans every day than these stray incidents but I don't see anybody declaring an open season on humans.
Putting down a stray dog known to be a human biter by the authorities would not be disputed but tarring every stray dog with the same brush is against the principles of natural justice.
Yaj.

[Bruno22]

I really feel sorry for the sad and miss directed younger years and youth that your uncles had. It's a pity they never learned any form of compassion towards living things. But as you say 'times have changed' I also do hope for the better.
Shooting a dog or any other animal is not a condonable act. I repeat myself by stating that I am not against hunting (if it's going to help the wild life population like in some African countries) nor am I against hunting for survival if the need arises. Unfortunately due to urbanization and development we can't now indulge in 'Shikar' like our fathers and their fathers did. I often wish I had been born in those times. If we hunt irresponsibly today then all we will have are pictures to show our children.....
Bruno22

[amk]

Don't know about the rights and wrongs of dog killings but I would love to see someone put an end to the stray dog menace in my locality. I can't ride my bike peacefully, these strays chase me and I'm afraid one of these days I'm going to crash or get bitten.

Sometimes I wish I lived in the times of Timmy's uncles but having said that, life was incredibly difficult too. Imagine, all the luxuries we take for granted now being snatched away in a shot!!!

[penpusher]

Are you implying that if those incidents occurred as reported there should be a mass culling of stray dogs irrespective of their temperament/disposition?

To answer your question,Yes.

I see nothing wrong in killing dogs that may be nuisance or a threat or as a means of stopping rabies.

The question I would like to ask is this,"Did any one from the SPCA or an animal lover think it appropriate to visit any one of the families that had/has lost a child to stray dog attacks?"

[Vikram]

Timmy,

I like`the style of your narratives. Thanks for sharing and keep them coming.

I really feel sorry for the sad and miss directed younger years and youth that your uncles had. It's a pity they never learned any form of compassion towards living things. But as you say 'times have changed' I also do hope for the better.
Shooting a dog or any other animal is not a condonable act.
Bruno22

I am a dog lover if there ever was one and I place them much higher than many people I know or don't know.I will not condone needless animal cruelty.Even as I hunt, there is a bleeding heart animal lover in me.Having said that, look at Timmy's uncle shooting those dogs. The farmer was warned repeatedly about his dogs chasing his uncle which could prove fatal. Do you expect the law enforcement people to take care of dog menace in the middle of no where in those days? The dogs were out of the property of their master.Had they bitten his uncle, they for sure wold have been put down. I would have taken a different approach but I do not disapprove of Timmy's uncle shooting them.

I think you are a bit uncharitable and hasty in your judgement.JMO.There are good dogs and there are certain dogs that need to be put down.

I used to get chased by a couple of specific dogs while riding my Bullet.I would wait for them to come close and then kick solidly in their ribs.That would send them somersaulting and never would they come chasing after me. Or sometimes, I would turn my bike and give ''them'' a chase.You need to see their surprise.LOL.

Best-
Vikram

[Olly]

Well, as a measure of population control, the dogs here are sterilized and let off again in the same area after a couple of days.
I have noticed a change in the dog after he has been through 'it'. He is more docile, barks less (implying that he is less aggressive) etc. etc.
Now your guess is as good as mine, as to the reasons for this change of behaviour...

Maybe this is a good method for their population control ?

The biting ones have to be culled for safety of women, children and elders...

[Yaj]

Are you implying that if those incidents occurred as reported there should be a mass culling of stray dogs irrespective of their temperament/disposition?

To answer your question,Yes.

I see nothing wrong in killing dogs that may be nuisance or a threat or as a means of stopping rabies.

I think you should read my question carefully.

The question I would like to ask is this,"Did any one from the SPCA or an animal lover think it appropriate to visit any one of the families that had/has lost a child to stray dog attacks?"

So do all the great lovers of humanity do the same everytime there is a rape or murder even in their own neighbourhood?

[amk]

I'm not taking chances with these dogs while riding. They're brazen and not afraid if you turn around on them. They actually bit my friend while he was on his bike and he was riding a LOUD bike.

[timmy]

I don't want to get into the debate regarding judgments of the characters in my story. I only offered it only as a story and all may feel free to take whatever lessons they may feel appropriate from it. I would like to mention another, shorter story in this regard however:

A good friend of mine and my former boss runs a large ranch on the border of New Mexico and Colorado. At the time of this story, he was running a flock of around 500 sheep and a bit less than 200 cattle, in addition to his father's flock of sheep, also about 500. There, too, in this very rural area of the USA, they have dog problems even to this present day. As I had mentioned earlier, when packs of feral dogs are running, even pets will join them.

Before I get into the story, I would like to share a little background to life in this area. Al (my friend) often told of "Mr. Muniz," a sheep rancher who Al said was pretty wealthy, but didn't live like it. If Mr. Muniz saw a lost sheep when driving around in his car, he'd load the sheep up in his car. If you've spent much time around sheep, you know that they are very dirty and smelly, and often carry lice and ticks in their wool. People wondered why Mr. Muniz would put dirty sheep in the back seat of his nice car (He liked Oldsmobile 98s, despite living primitively. But this is another story.) and Mr. Muniz would tell them that since the sheep paid for his car, they should be able to ride in it. This may sound strange to you, but such thinking is very prevalent in the rural Northern New Mexico area.

It was also very common when coming over to Al's house, to find one or two calves grazing in the lawn or standing on the deck -- if they were orphaned he'd care for them right by the house. Often, we'd be watching TV in his den and calves would come up to the sliding door, begging food.

One day while watching football on TV, my boss heard some commotion outside in a pasture (one that was right next to the house). A pack of dogs was tearing into a group of sheep, attacking them. Al jumped up and grabbed his .30-30. Running outside, he began shooting at the dogs, some of which he'd hit. Going into the mess of shot dogs and ripped up sheep, he and one of the county sheriff deputies (who later arrived, being called by Al's wife) found that one of the dead dogs was the neighbor's pet.

This was a real problem, since the neighbor was the school district superintendent, and Al's wife worked in the school district office. The superintendent came over and began to berate Al for shooting his dog, to which Al replied that the dog was running with a wild pack and was attacking his sheep. The superintendent denied this, to which Al noted the blood around the dog's mouth. The superintendent replied that his dog was only protecting the sheep by attacking the other dogs.

Well, as you may imagine, this event didn't engender neighborly relations between Al and the superintendent, nor did it make for a good working environment for Al's wife at the school district office. Soon, she was let go from her job. The next election, Al campaigned tirelessly against the superintendent (whose position was elected) and took the day of the election off. He drove the rural area, pulling farmers and ranchers from their homes and out of the fields and taking them to the polling places to vote.

He ended up taking the next day off of work also. He was so happy from the election results that his celebration that evening precluded him from attending work the next day. As I took care of his phone, that was no problem. The final part to the story was that his wife was subsequently rehired to her job.

If you want to see what the countryside looks like in this area, check out this page:

Costilla Crossing Bridge



This area is large park -- a high plains bowl in the mountains about 7000-8000 ft in elevation.

[penpusher]

Yaj,

Lets just say that you have a different take on the issue and I a different one.That's what makes this world an interesting place,doesn't it.

As far as what Timmy's uncle did,I would have done the same.

[Bruno22]

Ok here is the one and only solution for India's stray dog population. I have worked this into points.
1. Dog ownership should be a strictly controlled and costly affair. Thats where the problem starts. Dogs need to be chipped (insertion of a small electronic chip that locates the dog and has other information on its vaccination and health information) This should be mandatory for all people owning dogs.
2. All strays should be adopted by large companies who would sponsor the process and house them in a large holding areas outside city limits. For doing this the companies should get tax relief and other benefits from the government. This will facilitate the NGO's to get about sterilizing these dogs systematically.
3. I do agree that there are good and bad dogs. All the trouble makers and dogs with any form of sickness will head for the gas chamber. This is unfortunately unavoidable. All the good dogs are further sorted on looks, behavior and intelligence and are diverted into work dogs (security and seeing eye) and dogs that someone would want to adopt. To adopt again you will need to refer to point 1.
4. The dogs that remain will need to stay in the holding area till their natural life with decent conditions (the companies are responsible for this) which would be a give or take of 10 to 15 years. Any dog that gets a chronic illness is also sent to the gas chamber.
This whole process would take about 15-20 years. Dogs are not wantonly killed but put down in a humane way through lethal injection. The words 'Gas chambers' is a figure of speech. How often have parents brought a 'cute little puppy' for their son or daughter and set it on the road in the next one or two years. Thats how strays have come about. I say let dog ownership should be tougher than getting a gun license. That way only the sincere will have dogs and not those who have dogs just as a status symbol or on a whim and fancy.
Well... thats my one dollar worth on that topic.

[Mack The Knife]

All the trouble makers and dogs with any form of sickness will head for the gas chamber. This is unfortunately unavoidable.

Is that so? That statement reminds me of a certain Austrian Corporal who decided to do away with people with disabilities so as to build his master race.

I am not averse to putting down a dog if I am certain it poses a real and present danger or if it is close to death and I am unable to help it but this carte blanche attitude towards man's only friend by some of us makes me wonder if such people have ever been around dogs.