The Browning Auto-5 that I may consider...

[penpusher]

Mack The Knife,

Have preapred an application under the RTI aCT for getting copies of the 2 notification that governs the import of shotgun barrels.As per the information on the Finance Ministries website,the import of shotgun barrels is free subject to the conditions laid down in 2 notifications of the Home Ministry. A member had mentioned that one of the notifications is the one that had imposed a ban on the import of firearms. If that were so, the import of shotgun barrels would have been classified as being 'restriced' and not as being 'free', unless this is a typo.

Try this.Go to this site http://dgft.delhi.nic.in/zjdgftcal/itccla.asp Click on ITC(HS) classification and then click on Arms and Ammunition ;Parts and accessories thereof.Click on the link and open the list .Find out the ITC(HS) classification for shotgun barrel.Open this sithttp://dgft.delhi.nic.in/zjdgftcal/itccla.asp if this does not work,go back to http://dgft.delhi.nic.in/zjdgftcal/itccla.asp and click on the Query on ITC(HS) and type out the ITC(HS) code for shotgun barrels and read what it says.You can do the same for muzzle loading firearms.


penpusher

[Mack The Knife]

I see what you mean.

The ITCHS (what the dicken's does this mean?) code number for shotgun barrels is 93052100 and I get http://dgft.delhi.nic.in/det2006.asp

Mack The Knife

[penpusher]

That link will not work but I hope you were able to read the policy regarding the import of shotgun barrels and the notifications regualting their import.You can get copies of these notifications from the offices or agents mentioned on http://www.deptpub.nic.in/

penpusher

[Mack The Knife]

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgw ... -5-history

[Sujay]

penpusher,

I have MS Word file which details the policy of these items according to which import of shotgun barrel (93052100) is restricted ; obviously an old news. The same files says that import of Airguns (93040000)is also restricted without mentioning the notification of 2005

But the site of DGFT Delhi lays out the policy condition to import these one being free and another restricted. What might have happened is that import of shotgun barrels were relaxed at some point of time similar to the notification of Airguns in 2005.

Again according to another clarification, Click here; the provisions of those two notifications ( 1985 and 2005) are applicable to import of airguns etc also i.e conditions similar to import of shotgun barrels.

I got totally confused with all these notifications and was unable to proceed in a systematic manner but saved the links for future references. I am providing two remaining links in case it helps you to pursue with the query.

1) First

This one is very interesting and will tell what mess was created in 1985 after the sudden ban ( scroll down )

2) Second

This one lists every shooting accessory imaginable. Can't say only for duty exemption or import

I appreciate you effort and also hope that this will finally clear the air as to what exactly is happening.

[dev]

Gawd Mack The Knife,

It is beautiful but I don't know if it'll be safe to shoot again. Why don't you go for hunter gill's option. But an amazing amount of work done. But it looks very difficult...if you can take it overseas I guess then something...

Regards,

Dev.

Dev,

It is indeed the Humpback.....of NOIDA.

In my GunsDigest it does rate as a shotgun to possess.

Provided it does not blow up in my face.

Some pics until I can get them all digitised.

BTW, sorry for the size - mea culpa. I have resized the pics but Photobucket can be a bit slow in this regard.




















































The last two pics show the gun after it was 'cleaned'.








Well, Mehul, do you still honestly feel this is worth pursuing?

Incidentally, for those who haven't noticed, the butt stock was broken through at the grip.

Mack The Knife

[dev]

That's just you age talking . Okay how do you unscrew a can of 500 Crosman magnum Premiers. Heck I still can't open em.

Dev

One of Mark's co-moderators at Accurate Reloading has a CNC stock duplicator....

Now that is an offer I would happily and gratefully accept. Thank you!

No need for any fancy wood or graining. If I get it, it will be a working gun not a showpiece.

I will see if I can have the stocks sent to you directly from Delhi.

And, once you start shooting it, try and make your mind up about moving out.

My mind is already made up but there are constraints - parents getting old (though they would throw a fit if they learnt I was staying back because of them), getting a job that I actually like and that pays enough to put the kids through a good education, blah, blah, blah.... What's a good wage to achieve all that in the U.S.?

From a selfish standpoint, we guys in North America would also have one more good friend here.

Not sure about that. I am a bit too blunt (to the extent of being rude) and grumpy and tend to annoy most people, unless they happen to be of similar bent.

Mack The Knife

[penpusher]

Dev,

In the first link,the top bit is a result of a case filed in the Delhi High Court by a person seeking permission to sell his weapon, that had been allowed ot enter the country on the condition that it will not be sold during the life time of the licensee.The plea was that he,the petitioner, needed to raise money for his medical treatment by selling the weapon.The HC had disallowed the request.

In the second link,the detailed list describes the goods that can be imported free of duty by the mentioned individuals/bodies.

The positive thing's that have happened in the shooting sport so far have been i)allowing the import of .177 air rifles and ii) allowing anybody who can reach the MQS to import a firearm.Something is better than nothing.


penpusher

[Grumpy]

Dodger, I`d guess that the receiver looks worst than the inside of the barrel as it is made of a different, `milder` grade of steel. The barrel pits would have to be very deep for it to be consigned to the scrapheap - A-5 barrels are thick walled as I said.
Thanks for displaying the serial number - problem solved: It`s an early one. Total production between 1902 and 1939 was something like 230,000 guns. Most of the earliest production went to the US as John Moses Browning ordered 10,000 guns himself ( ! ) in 1903 for sale in the US. It is uncertain just how long that order took to complete. Although the dating of the early guns is imprecise yours must be very early, pre-WWI, and probably between around c.1905-1910.
Those early A-5s were very nicely finished - a very deep lustrous blue, probably cold rust. If you can salvage the stock/fore-end please try to do so as originality is important to the value of old guns.
I don`t reckon the American made guns......and neither did Browning as, post WWII when it was decided that the gun was too expensive to produce in Belgium they transferred production to Japan. Compare the finish on Mehuls Japanese made gun to an American made gun and you`ll see why ! That`ll probably upset some of our American chums.
I figured that you would relish the challenge of restoring this gun......By`eck it`s going to take a lot of polishing though. As far as the inside of the barrel is concerned just clean it with a bore brush and a cloth jag soaked in a propritary cleaner like Hoppes 303. DON`T use any abrasive material in the bore. The mechanism is simple - but strong - and won`t require much attention. Just clean off any surface rust and oil very lightly. The gun will cycle even if completely dry.
If you haven`t shot an A-5 before you are in for an experience........Recoil is not mild but not sharp either. The barrel moving back and forth makes for recoil extended over time. The operation is technically Long Recoil and that term can also be applied to the recoil. The sound it makes is quite remarkable......sort of `KerCHUNK` !
Have fun.

[Grumpy]

Just one more thing: Don`t take any notice of the `doubting Thomases` as I will bet a substantial sum that the gun will work fine. No joking, A-5s need to be in bits to stop them functioning. Recoil operation isn`t smooth and high tech like gas operation but it is extremely reliable. You`ll have to make sure that the bearing surfaces on the rear of the barrel and inside of the receiver are rust free but don`t abrade any pits that you find there. Just clean off any scale and lightly oil. Grease has no place on any gun and will prevent a gas operated gun from operating.........I`ll tell you a story about that sometime.

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

My personal thanks to you for bringing our friend out of the darkness into the light. Everyone who likes shotguns should have an A-5. I keep hearing rumours that Daewoo are planning to offer the A-5 design after Miroku stopped building them in 1995. I do hope that this is true as the guns, though unsophisticated when compared to more modern designs, really work and are nice to shoot. Without much shotgunning experience, Inder took to my gun like a duck to water. The humpback gives an extended sighting plane which I really like compared to the streamlined designs that were offered later though these days Breda, Benelli etc have gone back to the humpback design on their gas operated guns. SHows that old ideas often work very well indeed!

Thanks again and Cheers!

[Mack The Knife]

I`d guess that the receiver looks worst than the inside of the barrel

Yes, that is correct. As I recall and I could be mistaken, the rusting was localised to just one or two areas within the bore.

There was no rust within the receiver as far as I could see.

Most of the earliest production went to the US as John Moses Browning ordered 10,000 guns himself ( ! ) in 1903 for sale in the US. It is uncertain just how long that order took to complete.

As I understand it, the first 10,000 that went to the U.S. were sold within the first year itself, since this was the first ever semi-auto shotgun ever and there was almost no competition for the first fifty years of its history.

Accoring to that dating link this is certainly a very early version.

The A-5 is one of the few shotguns that I have shot (not this particular one) and I quite liked it. Infact I will be shooting the same A-5 in the coming days once again.

The biggest doubting Thomas in this matter happens to be. Or should I say, happened to be me. You do give me hope and if I can get it transfered it would give me a chance to own an important bit of shotgun history.

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

P.S.: I do look forward to the no grease in guns bit.

[Grumpy]

You know I have a soft spot for the Belgian A-5s Mehul. Goodness knows why - they`re heavy, Klutzy, thump you about and make a racket. They`re also very well made, extraordinarily reliable and individual. Imagine how remarkable it appeared when first announced.
By the way, isn`t the straight-hand stock on this gun of Dodgers` particularly elegant ?

[Mack The Knife]

My personal thanks to you for bringing our friend out of the darkness into the light.

Hehehe.... and my thanks to you for bringing this up regularly rather than just letting me give up on it.

Now let's see if the transfer goes through.

Fingers crossed.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

As it happens Dodger the A-5 was not the first automatic shotgun.....there were several that preceded it including American guns. It was definitely the first to achieve volume sales though.
Some of the American websites offer specific dates for the early guns but FN themselves say that accurate dating is not possible. There is no way that those 10,000 guns ordered by John Moses were all delivered in 1903 as the factory didn`t have the capacity to build so many in just a few months.