Dear Members,
I am putting matter up on the forum because Danish has forced me to do so.
Danish had bought a 12g Purdey from me in December.The price I was expecting was 2.75L but he offered me 3L.I dont know for what reason.He saw the pictures of the weapon and made enquiries about the weapon.
I was informed that there is one more middle man who is making some money on top.I made it clear to him that whatever he makes on top is none of my business as long as I get my money.
He also asked me to send the gun through courier to Chandigarh.My license was not endorsed for ALL INDIA then so I had to call up a few people to get it expedited.I asked him to send a NOC so that I can transfer the gun immediately to the arms store in Chandigarh which was Vishal Gun House.He said that the local DCP was on leave so the only way to send it to Chandigarh was that I get it along with me when my license was ALL INDIA. I had to get a special NOC to carry the gun to Chandigarh from my DCP Office.The next morning, I flew to Delhi where Danish met me and we were on our way to Chandigarh.
When we reached Vishal Gun House in Chandigarh, I showed him the weapon and the store owner said that the barrels were fake.I got really pissed and I told him that by the time we get to Delhi, he will have his money back and I can keep the gun.He immediately went on his defense and started speaking with the store owner.So after 15 minutes of Danish speaking with the store owner, he comes to me and says that he has made an offer of 1L for the Purdey since the barrel is fake.that really blew my lid off and I said that I dont want to sell it anymore and I informed him very clearly that he his money which was 2.9L will be waiting for us in Delhi before we reach.He then again spoke with the dealer and he said that it was ok and after half of the dealers family examining the gun, he endorsed the sale on my license and gave me a certificate.
That was the end of the deal. Right then, a casual customer walked in and asked the dealer if the Purdey was for sale and he immediately quoted 9L for it in front of me.The certificate from Purdey was also there.
Now after 10-12 days, he calls me up again and says he wants to buy my Colt 357 revolver.I quoted the final price and he says that he will send the money as soon as the revolver reaches Delhi.I disagreed and told him that this was not the way I do business.Forget Danish, I wouldnt do business like that with my own Father who brought me into this world for God's sake.So when I disagreed, he says he will cut the 2.9L and send me the rest and I can pick up the Purdey from Chandigarh as he has not paid for what he got.
Now what I feel is that Danish must have done forward selling with the gun with the dealer being the financer and since he cannot get the price with his profit, he is presureising to return his money.This is hypothetically speaking ofcourse.He has been calling me almost daily and I have tried to explain to him each time that the Purdey which he bought was personally delivered by me and he had inspected the weapon before he had endorsed on my license.So where is the question of me returning the money now????
I am forced to put this dispute on the forum because Danish has just sent me a PM asking me very nicely for a refund else he will be forced to put it on the forum.I have declined very nicely.So I thought, why not I put it up first.
Danish, please feel free to correct me or add your side of the story if you feel that what I have said is incorrect.
I feel that I am morally as well as legally correct.
Members please feel free to put up your views.
Ashar
Transaction Dispute
Forum rules
Please use "Positive"or "Negative", and name of the buyer or seller with whom you've dealt, in the subject title.
Please use "Positive"or "Negative", and name of the buyer or seller with whom you've dealt, in the subject title.
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HydNawab
- One of Us (Nirvana)
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- Location: Hyderabad
Transaction Dispute
Last edited by HydNawab on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze'.
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
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nagarifle
- Old Timer
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- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:43 pm
- Location: The Land of the Nagas
hi
i feel that;
we need to hear from both party.
that this forum may not be the place to decide the out come of the argument.
that forum does not really have any power to force anyone to do anything.
AS gentleman, one should be able sort this.
at the end of the day this can be dealt in accordance with the law of the land
.
and of course the actual buyer, that is in who's license the arms went into should take this up with the law.
and noting i have said to be taken seriously and i am not responsible for others action or who take what i say and things go wrong am not owning up to what i said as of know.
i feel that;
we need to hear from both party.
that this forum may not be the place to decide the out come of the argument.
that forum does not really have any power to force anyone to do anything.
AS gentleman, one should be able sort this.
at the end of the day this can be dealt in accordance with the law of the land
.and of course the actual buyer, that is in who's license the arms went into should take this up with the law.
and noting i have said to be taken seriously and i am not responsible for others action or who take what i say and things go wrong am not owning up to what i said as of know.
Nagarifle
if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.
if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.
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raj
- Almost at nirvana
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Re: Transaction Dispute
hi,
i think it will be better if you people sit down and try to talk it out face to face.
And my advice to Mr. Ashar is that be carefull while dealing with your firearms(specially with precious ones like Purdey or Colt)
Regards
raj
i think it will be better if you people sit down and try to talk it out face to face.
And my advice to Mr. Ashar is that be carefull while dealing with your firearms(specially with precious ones like Purdey or Colt)
Regards
raj
---I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be the one controlling it.
---"Slow is Smooth,Smooth is Fast"
---"Slow is Smooth,Smooth is Fast"
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marksman
- Shooting true
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- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:28 pm
- Location: India
Ashar,
If I were you, it would be " Come over, inspect the weapon any which way you want, agree upon the price mutually. pay the money, do all the legal paperwork, take the fire arm and good luck."
The very fact that you flew all the way to deliver, I am sure in good will, may have made you a soft target in the eyes of this shrewd dealer. He exploited your "lack of holding capacity or Desperate urgency to sell". At least the dealer thought this so. The gun dealers are hard core business people and not neccesarily gun nuts, you see?
.
Marksman
If I were you, it would be " Come over, inspect the weapon any which way you want, agree upon the price mutually. pay the money, do all the legal paperwork, take the fire arm and good luck."
The very fact that you flew all the way to deliver, I am sure in good will, may have made you a soft target in the eyes of this shrewd dealer. He exploited your "lack of holding capacity or Desperate urgency to sell". At least the dealer thought this so. The gun dealers are hard core business people and not neccesarily gun nuts, you see?
.
Marksman
Exercise in Logic:
Given that there are far more good guys than bad guys, what would happen if all good guys and all bad guys were armed???......Simple, isn't it ?---Jeff Cooper
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't
be any India because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!"
Given that there are far more good guys than bad guys, what would happen if all good guys and all bad guys were armed???......Simple, isn't it ?---Jeff Cooper
"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't
be any India because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our
women and breed a hardier race!"
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HydNawab
- One of Us (Nirvana)
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:12 pm
- Location: Hyderabad
Re: Transaction Dispute
Marksman,
That is exactly what I told Danish but he said that the person who is paying for the gun is 'too busy' and cant come over even for day.I had to fly down to Delhi.
Ashar
That is exactly what I told Danish but he said that the person who is paying for the gun is 'too busy' and cant come over even for day.I had to fly down to Delhi.
Ashar
'It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze'.
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
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striker
- Shooting true
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:16 pm
- Location: Chennai
Ashar
having purdey certificate how the barrel is fake??? As per the chandigarh dealers.
having purdey certificate how the barrel is fake??? As per the chandigarh dealers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------99.9% of the World's Gunners are 100% SAFE.Please do not ruin their reputation by being stupid or using guns in violence!!
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HydNawab
- One of Us (Nirvana)
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:12 pm
- Location: Hyderabad
Re: Transaction Dispute
Forget the certificate striker.What I want to know is that when the dealer knew that the barrel was fake supposedly, then why didnt he take the money which I offered him back?
'It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze'.
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
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nagarifle
- Old Timer
- Posts: 3404
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:43 pm
- Location: The Land of the Nagas
on reflection its clear as mud, (keep in mind that we have only one side of the story and i ain't a layer)
you want to the dealer on his request, you borne the airfare etc.
dealer inspected the gun and the documents etc, was happy and paid the money and endorsed it in your license. the documents etc took the gun. so the deal is " as is" so no problem. After all he is a dealer so he must know what he is buying right?
As for the colt! is it not your to sell or not? since you are the seller then its on you terms.
As for returning the money out of the question as the gun was sold, if any objection regarding the gun should have been made there and then.
if they were in doubt then they should not have paid for it.
since the gun has left your hands and is out of your sight how can you be sure that the barrel or other parts have not be replaced etc?
was there any agreement of returning the gun or refund? in writing?
best advice would be ask the other party to take you to court. And explain to the Judge who arranged the deal and who paid you and to whom the gun was sold to.
on the other hand do not say anything. keep it in writing keep all pm emails etc. and sit tight and do noting.
you want to the dealer on his request, you borne the airfare etc.
dealer inspected the gun and the documents etc, was happy and paid the money and endorsed it in your license. the documents etc took the gun. so the deal is " as is" so no problem. After all he is a dealer so he must know what he is buying right?
As for the colt! is it not your to sell or not? since you are the seller then its on you terms.
As for returning the money out of the question as the gun was sold, if any objection regarding the gun should have been made there and then.
if they were in doubt then they should not have paid for it.
since the gun has left your hands and is out of your sight how can you be sure that the barrel or other parts have not be replaced etc?
was there any agreement of returning the gun or refund? in writing?
best advice would be ask the other party to take you to court. And explain to the Judge who arranged the deal and who paid you and to whom the gun was sold to.
on the other hand do not say anything. keep it in writing keep all pm emails etc. and sit tight and do noting.
Nagarifle
if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.
if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.
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HydNawab
- One of Us (Nirvana)
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:12 pm
- Location: Hyderabad
Re: Transaction Dispute
There was no oral or written agreement for the refund or the returning of the gun.I would be very happy to be the defendant in this case if Danish wishes to takes me to court.
'It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze'.
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
'You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.'
-- Al Capone
-
nagarifle
- Old Timer
- Posts: 3404
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:43 pm
- Location: The Land of the Nagas
hard to say without both side of the story.
40k for a layer who wants to pay? for a lost case.
if no agreement was made or talked about and the dealer paid and took the gun. then its sold, as is, and do not worry at all. no need to respond to anyone's call/etc unless you get a high court summons. just chill out.
40k for a layer who wants to pay? for a lost case.
if no agreement was made or talked about and the dealer paid and took the gun. then its sold, as is, and do not worry at all. no need to respond to anyone's call/etc unless you get a high court summons. just chill out.
Nagarifle
if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.
if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.
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penpusher
Re: Transaction Dispute
HydNawab,
You sold the gun.The dealer bought it.The sale is endorsed on your license.He has given you a sales certificate.The deal has been completed as far as you are concerned.There is nothing that either the dealer or Danish can prove against you.
If I remember it correctly,I had warned members about dealing with Satish.Don't sell to him or buy anything from him.
His father,who has a shop right next to his,was once busy sleeving Indian made SBBL guns because,as he put it,"They had bought them and would have to sell them." These were old guns with shot out barrels,they must have bought for a couple of hundred rupees.The pipes that he was using as sleeves,certainly did not inspire confidence.I have only pity for the fellows who would have ended up being duped into buying them.
Also stay away from Ahuja Gun House and United Arms Company.
As far as Danish is concerned,I am happy to say that I have had not had any dealing with him so far.
If you need any help,I would be more than willing to offer my assistance- FOR FREE
You sold the gun.The dealer bought it.The sale is endorsed on your license.He has given you a sales certificate.The deal has been completed as far as you are concerned.There is nothing that either the dealer or Danish can prove against you.
If I remember it correctly,I had warned members about dealing with Satish.Don't sell to him or buy anything from him.
His father,who has a shop right next to his,was once busy sleeving Indian made SBBL guns because,as he put it,"They had bought them and would have to sell them." These were old guns with shot out barrels,they must have bought for a couple of hundred rupees.The pipes that he was using as sleeves,certainly did not inspire confidence.I have only pity for the fellows who would have ended up being duped into buying them.
Also stay away from Ahuja Gun House and United Arms Company.
As far as Danish is concerned,I am happy to say that I have had not had any dealing with him so far.
If you need any help,I would be more than willing to offer my assistance- FOR FREE
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The Doc
- Veteran
- Posts: 1253
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:25 am
- Location: India.
Ashar,
As I see it -
1. You have sold the gun to XYZ and you have the proof on your license and a certificate . The deal is over.
2. You have been decent enough to fly from AP to Delhi on your own expense to deliver the firearm. Also you have spent a lot of energy and time getting various permissions from your local DCP office.
3. The Colt is yours and you have the right to sell it to anyone you wish, at any price that you decide and opt for the most suitable method of payment to you.
Just chill. I hope no one has to go through a similar experience though.
best,
RP.
As I see it -
1. You have sold the gun to XYZ and you have the proof on your license and a certificate . The deal is over.
2. You have been decent enough to fly from AP to Delhi on your own expense to deliver the firearm. Also you have spent a lot of energy and time getting various permissions from your local DCP office.
3. The Colt is yours and you have the right to sell it to anyone you wish, at any price that you decide and opt for the most suitable method of payment to you.
Just chill. I hope no one has to go through a similar experience though.
best,
RP.
It's always better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it !
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veejosh
- Almost at nirvana
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Dear Ashar,
Its important that you save all the evidence of such deals. I have lost a lot of money on one such deal and feel I should have played it safe.
One good thing you have done is having it all posted here for others who have never delt before, to be doubly sure before finalizing any deals.
Thank you for this writeup.
Regards,
Vikas
Its important that you save all the evidence of such deals. I have lost a lot of money on one such deal and feel I should have played it safe.
One good thing you have done is having it all posted here for others who have never delt before, to be doubly sure before finalizing any deals.
Thank you for this writeup.
Regards,
Vikas
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Sakobav
- Old Timer
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- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 7:28 pm
- Location: US
Ashar
A lesson from your experience is to stay within one's state or judicial limits have the buyer come in and pick up the gun. Rather than flying / driving across state boundary lines and exposing one self unnecessarily.
I cant add much to what others have covered and stated. Its over done with now sit tight and just file this one under " bad experiences make good judgments for the future".
Cheers
A lesson from your experience is to stay within one's state or judicial limits have the buyer come in and pick up the gun. Rather than flying / driving across state boundary lines and exposing one self unnecessarily.
I cant add much to what others have covered and stated. Its over done with now sit tight and just file this one under " bad experiences make good judgments for the future".
Cheers
Last edited by Sakobav on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.