Which shot gun would you like to have in home/ self defence?

[msandhu]

Thats looks more like a cannon than a gun
Cheers
Mandeep

[phantom]

ebenezer
i guess pump action shot gun of 12 bore capacity are still available as they were in the past bt iof product has been vanished from the market bcoz it's under some renewal process as soon as it is over we can have the new model if you visit the site of iof you will find the pag is under construction!!!!

[jayanta mukherjee]

If you are not going to buy a gun,why ask a question.Also,why go to the trouble of getting a license in the first place.

What made you think that am not already in possession of my gun? Anyways maybe I put it in a wrong way.........
Love
Jayanta

[ebenezer]

ebenezer
i guess pump action shot gun of 12 bore capacity are still available as they were in the past bt iof product has been vanished from the market bcoz it's under some renewal process as soon as it is over we can have the new model if you visit the site of iof you will find the pag is under construction!!!!

Hi Phantom,

I think you are referring to the site www.gunaccessory.com. There you won't find it. Here is the link: http://ofbindia.gov.in You will find the pump action gun under products - weapons - category. Of course, this one lists both: (for civilian use 20 inches barrel length and defence 18 inches). As regards availability of pump action guns to civilians, there is another topic on the market price of IOF pump actions going on simultaneously. Abhijeet has made a post (the latest). Just have a look.

Regards,
Ebenezer

[sdiversp]

12 Guage (if you can own it in India) Pump Action. Remington 870's are cheapest with a chamber extender. Pump action is best given if the shot shell jams, you can re-pump it to clear and feed the next shot shell.

[timmy]

For me, the ultimate would probably be a 12 ga hammer double. A double is nice for a couple of reasons: the action is both simple and duplicated; there is very little to go wrong and nothing to jam, and there are two actions in case anything does go wrong.

Secondly, the action of a double (or a single shot, for that matter) is very short. So, for whatever short length of barrel you are allowed, a double is always shorter than a pump or automatic.

I would very much prefer a hammer double, because I would want to leave the weapon loaded all the time. I have a hammerless double that I have loaded with snap caps. This way, I don't have to store the weapon with the main springs compressed all the time. With a hammer double, the main springs don't need to be cocked when there are rounds in the chamber.

That said, anything that is reliable is a good choice. For myself, I have an old Stevens 520 pump in 16 ga. The reason I have it is because I bought it for $10 years ago -- it had a broken stock. I bought a replacement stock from Fajen's for about $25 and cut the barrel back to 18 inches.

A double only has two shots before reloading. One would hope that for home self-defense (few of use would be hauling any sort of shotgun around in our daily walking or driving) two would be enough, but still, having 5 or 6 rounds ready is nicer than only two: this is the advantage of the pump or automatic.

Another advantage of the pump is that it is probably cheaper than any other choice, save for the single shot.

The nice thing about the older pumps like this is that you can hold the trigger back and fire as fast as you can work the slide. Many later pumps have a disconnector, so you have to release the trigger after working the action each time. I'm not too sure ths makes a lot of difference, or even any at all, but I like the feature.

It is fairly small and swings nicely. I bought a cheap Lee loader multistation press to make up my own rounds for the thing.


Again, I feel that you have to have confidence that whatever you get will go bang when you pull the trigger and also that you know you can use the weapon effectively in adverse circumstances. I don't subscribe to the theory that simply being able to wave something around is sufficient -- in fact, I think that is worse than no weapon at all. In such a circumstance, one is just begging to have someone take the weapon away and perhaps use it.

[james]

Under the circumstances if reloading is needed , Hammer action would not be better choise as reloading and readyness to fire involves five stages i.e opening of gun ,taking out empty ,putting fresh ammo,closing the gun, cocking the hammer and you have two to go.
As rightly said old model pump would be better option with at least six plus one magazine capacity. The readyness to fire involves two stages i.e inserting ammo in tubular magazine , cycling the pump action with trigger pulled and six to go after every pump .

Just my openion , James....

[HSharief]

A good pump with the shortest legal barrel and largest legal mag would be good, if available. Or like other have said, a SxS with extra shells mounted on the other side of the cheek rest and/or forearm.

The most important thing you would need is proper training and practice. Google for shotgun tactics, there are lots of videos and pages that you can learn from. Also look for fast shooting and reloading of SxS on the cowboy shooters pages.

[timmy]

James, I see your point.

My comments are predicated on the notion that, if you are inside the house and someone is lurking about, you are not going to be as likely to engage in a firefight as the police might be in their work, which is why they have riot guns.

And I do think that the lesser capacity of a double vs a pump or auto is a negative against the double.

Still, I don't think that your comparison and count of stages quite tells the whole story.

When a double is reloaded, it is a pretty simple operation and easily done in the dark or in difficult situations, except maybe if you are in close quarters (under a bed or in a closet), in which case the break-open action could be a hinderance to reloading.

On the other hand, in order to get the advantage of the magazine in a pump or auto, you have to load the thing thru an awkward port in the bottom of the action, which means flopping the around to find the port and shoving in the hulls -- a more complicated process than dropping a pair into the barrels of a double, especially in the dark. The loading path is not in a straight line and the hulls must be pushed in against spring pressure. (Granted, one can practice this operation, too.)

Also, with some practice, it is a simple matter to thumb at least one of the hammers back when you close the action of a double -- it is not as if one has to conduct the operations you listed in order, rather than simultaneously. Also, I note that your double list of operations includes removing empties, and many doubles have ejectors rather than extractors, making this operation automatic.

I would like to digress here and note that in British bird hunting, they prefer doubles that lock on a lug underneath the barrel chambers. This is as opposed to something like the Greener lug between the barrels or even something like the LC Smith, which has a rotary bolt that engages a lug between the barrels.

Theoretically, the lug between the barrels is the better, stronger way to lock the action, because the greatest leverage to lock the action is obtained where the top of the barrels meets the top of the action. (The force of firing makes the break open action want to pivot around the pin, just like opening the action -- something that those who've messed with worn out break open actions have noted with a less-than-enthusiastic response.)

However, the British usually hunt with several guns in a blind (the old nobility, at least), where the hunter shot and his man reloaded and handed a loaded weapon back. For fast and reliable work, it was preferred to use the underlug locking method, as this gave free access to the breeches without the impediment of a locking lug.

FWIW

All of that said, I would not care to have my comments construed to be a disagreement with you. As I noted, everyone must be satisfied with what they are using. In some cases, one may not even have a choice.

Regards,
tim

[penpusher]

Timmy,

Feel free to disagree.Makes for a good debate.Frankly,mag capacity is meaningless if you are not going to hit the target.If you hit it,one cartridge is more than enough.

My choice,a 20" cylinder bore double with external hammers loaded with ball in one barrel and BB in the other.The pistol grip thingies are best avoided.

[james]

Hi, timmy , I do agree with your points ,every type of gun has advantage in particular situation , your very first line indicated that it is inside house scnario and not any gun fight , my assumption was that a farm house is being attacked by a bunch of four or five person with firearm and need to square off the situation ,some old day in villages these incidence use to happen ,really not a city affair.
The man behind the gun , situation he much likely to face and his adaptability with the weapon should be selective indicators for his gun , just my openion. cheers James..

[timmy]

Yes, James, I see your point: In such a situation, a magazine gun would have an advantage for sure. I was coming from the point of view that one is sleeping, hears a noise, and grabs something to investigate.

Overall, I do think that mindset and practice are more important than the technical issue of the optimal weapon, tho the technical issue isn't something to be ignored. At least, not where one actually has a choice of what weapon to use or buy for use.

The mindset of knowing what to do, based on practice is a key issue, I think. It's my opinion that just reading books and swallowing what a lot of folks say in magazines and on line can lead to a false sense of security. One should know what one is doing first, and then make the choices to carry out the task.

I guess that one of the USA's naval people (who also ran for Vice PResident) put what I am thinking about here quite well when he said:

This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to lose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

- Admiral James B. Stockdale

[boatme99]

I always had a Mossberg 500 12Ga. pump with pistol grip and a 18" barrel. $150.00 US when I got it. Now they are about $250.00. 12,116r? A .410Ga is also good for indoors.

[Timnorris]

I think double barrel gun with short barrels which are easily available now in gun shops ........you can use it for home defence and also carry it easily in a car.

[DOM]

Franchi spas is the best shotgun in my views.