In line ignition Muzzle loaders

[eljefe]

Mehul,
Blundered upon Knights inline ignition muzzleloaders and synthetic BP which comes in 50g pellets! Man, I was under that slimy rock too long!!
is your ML an inline Knights?
I heard that 2000fps is common with 200-250grainers.
Would apprecaite some info.
Thanks
Axx

[Grumpy]

Knight are just one of many companies making guns with inline ignition:
http://www.knightrifles.com/sitemap.htm
Hodgdon are the main manufacturers of `synthetic` black powders - their `Pyrodex` being the oldest and best known but they now make others as well. The pellets have a certain amount of convenience but make it difficult to work up optimum loads.......for obvious reasons.
www.hodgdon.com

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

I first hunted unsuccessfully with Mark's 50 cal Hawken percussion muzzleloader and then when Grumpy and I discussed muzzleloading, he almost predicted that I would start with an inline. When Deepak visited us, we went to Mike Schrank's Smoke N Gun, my favourite gun shop in these parts, and he had a brand new Knight 50 cal inline which he offered me for $ 100 (the suggested retail was $ 229.) Needless to say it came home with me and I have had great fun shooting it with the 320 grain cast bullets with a flat nose that Mark cast for me. My rifle does best with a 90 grain BP load - I haven't used Pyrodex yet. I haven't hunted with it yet, but if Mark and I go to Texas if some business that we have been working on works out, I shall take a hog with it at Mark's friend's place.

Here are some pics:



Me posing with it for Deepak in his room just hours after I bought the thing.



Shooting it during one of our zeroing sessions off Mark's back porch.

I hope to visit Mark with Inder before he returns to India. Will post more pics of Inder shooting the thing.

Cheers!

Mehul

[eljefe]

Grumpy and Mehul give me shove from under the slime...
One loads the bullet (sabot, double sabot , what not??!!) from the muzzle, ram rod et al?
and load the propellant from the breech, put a primer at the nipple and squeeze? Correct?
So why ML the bullet? why not a breech loaded BP?

Now I'm confused...
Axx

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

A quick note - have to run - yu load the powder first from the muzzle and then the bullet - sabot or whatever type you prefer over that and compress both with the ramrod. Then you pull the bolt back and place the primer ahead of it. You aim and fire it like any conventional gun.

It is therapeutic, relaxing to an extent that shooting a cartridge gun could never be and great fun. Come ovet to Chicago and we'll do it.

Cheers!

Mehul

[Grumpy]

The advantages of inline ignition are that it allows for faster and more efficient ignition and faster lock time. Breechloading of loose black powder ( or its` substitutes ) always presents problems, for obvious reasons - not the least of which is effective ( and economic ) sealing. It effectively means packaging the powder somehow which led directly to the introduction of cartridges.
As a rule of thumb, one uses the same volume of Pyrodex as the black powder load NOT the same weight ( Pyrodex is lighter. ) The problem with the pellets is that being of a fixed weight they rarely allow for an optimum load to be achieved - 30 or 50 gr pellets do not allow for much fine tuning.
The black powder substitutes - Pyrodex, Triple Seven etc - have their advantages ( safer and easier storage, less smoke ) but also disadvantages - Pyrodex ( and its` residue ) is horribly hydroscopic.

[mundaire]

The black powder substitutes - Pyrodex, Triple Seven etc - have their advantages ( safer and easier storage, less smoke ) but also disadvantages - Pyrodex ( and its` residue ) is horribly hydroscopic.

Grumpy I think you mean "hygroscopic"...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[eljefe]

Thanks Mehul/Grumpy
the slime is clearing...
Sure, if I come over your side next may, will give it a whirl.
Ok, no frizzen pan and iffy ignition or a curved channel for the primer spark to travel.Plus all the engineering and dynamics of a modern gun-wow-what a brainwave.Those inliners look very 21st century-yeah, the bolt part had me a bit confused.
Abhijeet's right-may be a printer's devil Grumpy, but we think we know what was implied-water absorbing.Right?
Axx

[Grumpy]

Abhijeet, do you know I actually debated with myself as to whether I should use the correct `hygroscopic` but decided that `hydroscopic` would probably be more familiar ....... a debate was pretty well inevitable either way. I should have known better ! As I`ve said to both Mehul and Mack The Knife in the past, the average Indian speaks better English than the British.
Yeah, `hygroscopic` - absorbs water.
Asif - yes, exactly so. Not all `inline` ignition percussion guns use bolts, some use a hammer but lock time is invariably faster with a bolt.

[HSharief]

I personally like the Thompson/Center models :

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/specialModels.php

Especially the break open and drop out trigger models. Asif bhai, if you're planning a trip in May next year, keep us all updated and we'll plan something good, shooting related.

[eljefe]

Thanks Sharief, Yes, am planning very heavily, this time, 1 day conference and 7 days of inline, outline, whatever-gotta smell come gunsmoke!

Grumpy,
the only time I let off a ML was an elcheapo legaly made version, at a friends coffee estate, many years ago.
The lock time was absolutely discernable and I did hit the 5l petrol tin.Distance mustt have been 25 long paces, in deference to my city slicker status!The BP cloud was atleast cruiser smoke screen worthy and I came away with more respect for our ancestors who went after DG with ML's
Bravo
Axx

[mehulkamdar]

Sharief,

I am somewhat wary of any break open rifle, take down etc and prefer a rigid, straight gun. The T-C sidelocks are fine guns - Mark has a lovely percussion 50 that I hunted with - but I would hesitate to buy a break open rifle as I worry about them losing accuracy over time.

If I were in the market for a premium inline, I would look hard at the new Remington Genesis with their new swivelling breech action first. I have seen some of these guns that are made for Remington in Spain and they were very well made and with an extremely innovative and interesting action. The best, of course, for the performance buffs, would be the Savage muzzleloaders, currently the only muzzleloaders that can be used with smokeless powder though this feature does make them illegal during muzzleloading hunting season in many states.

Asif,

Since you're getting into muzzleloading, just remember that this is an addiction that is impossible to get out of. It has s stronger draw than heroin, cocaine etc but it does not harm you in any way except for a small drain on your wallet - yes, it is substantially cheaper than shooting any centrefire gun. Just come over and we can have a good time. I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers,

Mehul

[Grumpy]

I presume the ban on the Savage only applies if using smokeless powder ?
I`m not quite sure how to describe the Remingtons` action.....a rotating firing pin holder perhaps ? It isn`t the breech that rotates anyway. Nice looking rifle - there`s just one thing against it - the only wood ( laminate ) stock available is a thumbhole version !

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

Yes, the ban applies only when using smokeless powder in the Savage MLs. But, surprisingly, some states (Idaho and Colorado, I think) allow them even with smokeless powder. Considering how superbly accurate Savage rifles are and how nice their Accutrigger is to shoot, the rifles are incredibly good. I have heard that the Savages have built up quite a following in the UK and on the Continent. What have you heard about them?

Cheers,

Mehul

[Grumpy]

As far as the UK is concerned it would be easy to believe that the only .22 lr autoloader around was the Ruger 10/22.....although the Walther Bullpup has sold well. The Savage .22s have a reputation for tack driving sccuracy but don`t sell well......and the centrefires hardly sell at all. Ruger 10/22s and CZ .22 lr B/As need a trigger job to achieve their accuracy potential - my CZ .17HMR had a horrible trigger as standard so I paid for a trigger job. The Savage Accutrigger is a bit of a big deal in Europe as most European rifles have good triggers anyway.....although the ubiquitous Remingtons 700 B/As sell very well in the UK even though they have a poor trigger - the same aplies to the Ruger 77.
Edgar brothers don`t even bother to import the Remington Genesis muzzle loader.