What do we pack in our survival kits?

[Risala]

Apart for the regular stuff like a flash light,knife,multitool I usually carry my hand gun.

Mash,going a lil OT what are the prices for fire arms in your neck of the woods for like a 12 G,30 06,.22 LR or a .32 Cal pistol/revs cause these are the popular Cals this side,just curious
Cheers
Sanjay

[mashh1]

Sanjay yesterday i bought a Llama in 32 with spare magazine for a friend for PKR 5500/-. new one will sell for 25000/- approx. i have a Star 32 which is for sale with a dealer, demand is 15000/ it is still in it card board box. new CZ 83 is available in Lahore for 45000/.
center fire rifle licensees are no more issued so the market is quite variable. i sold my Winchester model 70 for Rs. 65000/ in 2002 but if some body have license he can find some bolt action in 100,000/-
you did not mentioned that you asked about .22 rifle or handgun. i bought Erma semiautomatic .22 for 10000/- in 2006 and sold Adler .22 (AK Copy) for 25000/. i bought a beautiful Remington Scoremaster bolt action in 22 for Rs 5000/ but it is still with dealer as my licence is in progress. .22 Llama and Star sells around 1ok to 20k depending upon condition while new Taurus revolver was last time i bought for a friend for 65000/. and i am dreaming to buy a GSG 5 which is a MP5 copy in 22 is around 125000/
About 12 Ga i am not into sporting shotguns but brno or robust extractor will sell around 35000 to 50000 depending on condition. Winchester defender sells around 90k and maverick 88 around 55k. Semi automatic shotguns are not allowed to new licensees but i was offered a new Saiga 12 for 80k and it will be endorsed on license as SBBL but i denied .
regards

[TenX]

A few hundred kms away and hundreds of thousands lesser

[Risala]

Sanjay yesterday i bought a Llama in 32 with spare magazine for a friend for PKR 5500/-. new one will sell for 25000/- approx. i have a Star 32 which is for sale with a dealer, demand is 15000/ it is still in it card board box. new CZ 83 is available in Lahore for 45000/.
center fire rifle licensees are no more issued so the market is quite variable. i sold my Winchester model 70 for Rs. 65000/ in 2002 but if some body have license he can find some bolt action in 100,000/-
you did not mentioned that you asked about .22 rifle or handgun. i bought Erma semiautomatic .22 for 10000/- in 2006 and sold Adler .22 (AK Copy) for 25000/. i bought a beautiful Remington Scoremaster bolt action in 22 for Rs 5000/ but it is still with dealer as my licence is in progress. .22 Llama and Star sells around 1ok to 20k depending upon condition while new Taurus revolver was last time i bought for a friend for 65000/. and i am dreaming to buy a GSG 5 which is a MP5 copy in 22 is around 125000/
About 12 Ga i am not into sporting shotguns but brno or robust extractor will sell around 35000 to 50000 depending on condition. Winchester defender sells around 90k and maverick 88 around 55k. Semi automatic shotguns are not allowed to new licensees but i was offered a new Saiga 12 for 80k and it will be endorsed on license as SBBL but i denied .
regards

Thanks Mashh,you folks got something great going there,here one can never dream of buying any of the above at those prices unless you are a MP or a MLA ie an elected rep of the people.
A CZ 83 here will sell for a min INR Rs 12 lakhs A Star will go for around Rs 450000/- and even at these prices there are takers,should give you some idea about our plight.
Why have they stopped issuing licences for centre fire rifles
Best
Sanjay

[mashh1]

Sanjay i have seen these insane prices of32 pistols discussed on IFG, i do not know about MLA but other then them only nawab sb can afford them(Ashar u there). even prices of 32 S&W revolvers are way too high on your side, a good Pak Made local branded revolver in good condition can be had in 1k. many people get them to cover their licenses.
Regarding center fire rifles, i do not know exactly about the reason, it must be opinion of some bureaucrat that these rifles can be used for crimes. but licenses were banned in 1999 and reopened in 2005, center fire rifles and semi auto shot guns were not allowed.
An other thing which is very positive on your side is district rifle associations and shooting ranges for civilians, we dont have any such facility, i know only one shooting range for civvies is in Lahore and it is only limited for shotguns at a very high fee and one in Islamabad and i have heard that membership fee is near about 4 lac.
so with hunting areas getting populated and without shooting ranges, the use of center fire rifles is getting less i can think. in my group, two of our fellows used to carry 270 and 7MM Rem Mag for wild boar but all have switched to shotguns now as hunting areas are getting populated & cultivated at fast rate.

[Mark]

Apologies, but I'm going to be a little picky here because a "survival kit" to me can mean a lot of things.

It can mean the difference between life and death, if I am at a sponsored picnic or outing and the insects are terrible, it is raining, and there is some simpy whiner who simply just won't STFU and have a good time, so he'd rather make everyone else miserable.

Anyway, a survival kit that will save him from getting strangled is going to have different items in it than something I take with me when truly going into the wilderness, and that kit is different than the survival kit I'd take with me when flying cross country.

So a one-size-fits-all does not really work for me. There are a very few core items, but even those I'll change (for example, a knife that goes with me on a group picnic in the woods will be different than a knife that goes with me as a backup when hunting- for one thing it will have a corkscrew and bottle opener).

Things that I like to carry regardless-

knife or multi tool. Does not have to be that big even. Though the minimum size I'm really comfortable with is a Buck "Prince". Also if possible have something to sharpen the knife with. I have 2 things I like to recommend- the most versatile one is a small diamond sharpener. The smallest one that actually works is a rod about 2.5" long, but the small rectangles that are .75" X 1.5" work satisfactorily. The only other type I consider has 2 carbide cutters that you pull the knife through. They usually are much simpler and also faster to use but may not work well on a thicker knife blade if you use a bigger type knife.

Fire- matches or lighter. Disposable lighters are great, but for a more casual environment a pack of paper matches is fine. Wrap them in a napkin then wrap that in plastic wrap. I also have those metal sparking bars you shave with a knife. They are really great in a true wilderness survival situation as they never wear out and never go bad so you can put one somewhere for years and will still be able to make hundreds if not thousands of fires, but for anything else they are a pain to use. I have one that I cut down so it is only about an inch long, compact to carry but still big enough to work and when I have it I know that I will always be able to make a fire it will just have to be done in a routine manner and will take a small amount of time to do.

Toilet paper- Do not underestimate the power of toilet paper! Not only for you, but if you are out hiking with a group and one of the ladies needs to use the bushes you will forever be her hero. Best way I have found so far is to use a drinking straw and roll it firmly around that. Lick the edge of the paper to stick it to the straw to get started. I go with a roll about 2" in diameter, then remove the straw and put it in a plastic sandwich bag. Now put the straw in the baggie and suck out as much air as possible, then fasten the end shut with a rubber band. It will shrink down quite small and will also be waterproof. Before I did it this way, I used to just fold the paper over on itself one square at a time, then put the whole thing into a ziplock baggie and vacuum the air out. The biggest problem with that is the ziplock seals are not air tight and the thing re-inflates in a day or two. If you want, a few of those pre-moistened towellettes that come in foil packages can be put to good use too.

Flashlight- In the spirit that it is better to have something with you than something really good back at home, I have a bunch of small LED flashlights. I also have bigger ones but you'll look goofy carrying a large flashlight in the afternoon, and nowadays the small lights can provide a useable beam and still have enough battery life to last all night if need be. I like white LED's. Green ones are supposed to be better when walking in the woods but they are not so good when you need to look at color pictures or read text written in a shade of green.

Anyway, that is the bare minimum and it will fit smaller than a cigarette box if need be.

There are other items that may or may not be important for the situation, such as water (I'd like to say that I carry a collapsable water bladder but usually I just use 1 or 2 liter soft drink bottles filled with water), insect repellent (carry a small squeeze bottle), sunscreen (here is my recipe for sunscreen- mix zinc oxide with enough suntan oil to make it the consistency of honey, should be about 4 tablespoons Zinc Oxide to 1 teaspoon suntan oil, then put in a film cannister or jar) , and don''t forget some sort of candy. A roll of hard candies is great for cheering up yourself or others.

My aviation kit also had a toothbrush and razor and a half dozen candy bars, and some change to use in pay telephones.

Anyway, that is the bare minimum and you can put that kit together for pennies or nothing (one of my best small flashlights I got as a promotion, it has a corporate logo on it) and you can always upgrade items based on your own experience and comfort level, and the particular outing you are going on.

When I lived in the city I had a kit like this, combined with a small collapsible fishing rod and small tackle box that I put in a small "fanny pack" that I had also received for free as a promotion and kept the entire thing always in the trunk (boot for you guys) of my car. The other stuff never ever got used, but the fishing rod did! It was nice though as I could just grab the whole little bag and either carry it or buckle it on.

[TenX]

Apologies, but I'm going to be a little picky here because a "survival kit" to me can mean a lot of things.

It can mean the difference between life and death, if I am at a sponsored picnic or outing and the insects are terrible, it is raining, and there is some simpy whiner who simply just won't STFU and have a good time, so he'd rather make everyone else miserable.

Anyway, a survival kit that will save him from getting strangled is going to have different items in it than something I take with me when truly going into the wilderness, and that kit is different than the survival kit I'd take with me when flying cross country.

So a one-size-fits-all does not really work for me. There are a very few core items, but even those I'll change (for example, a knife that goes with me on a group picnic in the woods will be different than a knife that goes with me as a backup when hunting- for one thing it will have a corkscrew and bottle opener).

Things that I like to carry regardless-

knife or multi tool. Does not have to be that big even. Though the minimum size I'm really comfortable with is a Buck "Prince". Also if possible have something to sharpen the knife with. I have 2 things I like to recommend- the most versatile one is a small diamond sharpener. The smallest one that actually works is a rod about 2.5" long, but the small rectangles that are .75" X 1.5" work satisfactorily. The only other type I consider has 2 carbide cutters that you pull the knife through. They usually are much simpler and also faster to use but may not work well on a thicker knife blade if you use a bigger type knife.

Fire- matches or lighter. Disposable lighters are great, but for a more casual environment a pack of paper matches is fine. Wrap them in a napkin then wrap that in plastic wrap. I also have those metal sparking bars you shave with a knife. They are really great in a true wilderness survival situation as they never wear out and never go bad so you can put one somewhere for years and will still be able to make hundreds if not thousands of fires, but for anything else they are a pain to use. I have one that I cut down so it is only about an inch long, compact to carry but still big enough to work and when I have it I know that I will always be able to make a fire it will just have to be done in a routine manner and will take a small amount of time to do.

Toilet paper- Do not underestimate the power of toilet paper! Not only for you, but if you are out hiking with a group and one of the ladies needs to use the bushes you will forever be her hero. Best way I have found so far is to use a drinking straw and roll it firmly around that. Lick the edge of the paper to stick it to the straw to get started. I go with a roll about 2" in diameter, then remove the straw and put it in a plastic sandwich bag. Now put the straw in the baggie and suck out as much air as possible, then fasten the end shut with a rubber band. It will shrink down quite small and will also be waterproof. Before I did it this way, I used to just fold the paper over on itself one square at a time, then put the whole thing into a ziplock baggie and vacuum the air out. The biggest problem with that is the ziplock seals are not air tight and the thing re-inflates in a day or two. If you want, a few of those pre-moistened towellettes that come in foil packages can be put to good use too.

Flashlight- In the spirit that it is better to have something with you than something really good back at home, I have a bunch of small LED flashlights. I also have bigger ones but you'll look goofy carrying a large flashlight in the afternoon, and nowadays the small lights can provide a useable beam and still have enough battery life to last all night if need be. I like white LED's. Green ones are supposed to be better when walking in the woods but they are not so good when you need to look at color pictures or read text written in a shade of green.

Anyway, that is the bare minimum and it will fit smaller than a cigarette box if need be.

There are other items that may or may not be important for the situation, such as water (I'd like to say that I carry a collapsable water bladder but usually I just use 1 or 2 liter soft drink bottles filled with water), insect repellent (carry a small squeeze bottle), sunscreen (here is my recipe for sunscreen- mix zinc oxide with enough suntan oil to make it the consistency of honey, should be about 4 tablespoons Zinc Oxide to 1 teaspoon suntan oil, then put in a film cannister or jar) , and don''t forget some sort of candy. A roll of hard candies is great for cheering up yourself or others.

My aviation kit also had a toothbrush and razor and a half dozen candy bars, and some change to use in pay telephones.

Anyway, that is the bare minimum and you can put that kit together for pennies or nothing (one of my best small flashlights I got as a promotion, it has a corporate logo on it) and you can always upgrade items based on your own experience and comfort level, and the particular outing you are going on.

When I lived in the city I had a kit like this, combined with a small collapsible fishing rod and small tackle box that I put in a small "fanny pack" that I had also received for free as a promotion and kept the entire thing always in the trunk (boot for you guys) of my car. The other stuff never ever got used, but the fishing rod did! It was nice though as I could just grab the whole little bag and either carry it or buckle it on.

Nicely put Mark

I really liked the tissue idea the best. And of course, now that you reminded, the insect repellent is a must

[lazybones]

That's a great list Mark. The only thing I can add to it (regardless of terrain) is sturdy and comfortable footwear. If I was challenged to pick only one item in a survival kit, it would be boots

Ashok

[Mark]

Here are some pictures:


This is a Buck "Prince", which is the smallest knife that I think is actually useable to get work accomplished. By all means feel free to go larger, but a nife this size can do a lot of stuff from skinning an animal to making a sandwich.


My preferred sharpener-small enough to not take up much space but big enough to work. If space is an issue you can get rid of the pen-cap top.


I carried one of these for long time. Cut the handle off if you want and drill a small hole in the end for a cord. These can sharpen virtually anything, but take up more room and aren't any faster than the rod is.


Here is one of the fire starters I was talking about. These things really are great, they will make fires forever but it is not like using a match or lighter, they can be a bit of a pain to use. I cut one up, so it is a little less than half as long and have about 3/8" of magnesium on the bottom. I see there are ones being made like this nowadays though:

If you use a knife blade it will dull the blade a little, so what many people do is use a small section of hack saw blade instead. That is what is on the cord with the strikers.

[Mark]

On a sadder note, I just got this story of a hiker that succumbed to the elements last weekend in California:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 13DAQM.DTL

Which reminds me of a simple piece of equipment you can make for yourself if you ever venture out into the cold-

Get a large heavy-duty garbage bag, and a piece of 3/8" neoprene rubber. If you are caught in a snowstorm you climb inside the bag, draw it up around your neck and face, and sit on the neoprene. A good source for cheap neoprene is just get 4 or so old mouse pads and put them down and sit on them. Around here they have these heavy duty orange colored trash bags they use for picking up rubbish along the highways, which are recommended because they are both substantial and free if you ask the clean-up crews.