Legal advice wanted for proposed action

[mehulkamdar]

Friends,

Over the past weeks we have been discussing the possibility of my bringing a 505 Gibbs rifle on a temporary trip to India. Today, it was confirmed by penpusher on these boards as well as by a call to the Chicago Consulate that I, as an Indian citizen, cannot bring a gun with me to India on a short trip, though the current position of the Government of India is that foreigners can do this.

As an Indian citizen who lives abroad, who owns guns and who has never had as much as a traffic misdemeanour against him, I fail to understand why I should face this discrimination. I also fail to understand how, as an Indian citizen, I face this discrimination compared to a foreign citizen who would be visiting India, a country whose passport I hold.

Since I cannot bring this rifle with me, I would like to file a PIL or other legal action against the Government of India before the Supreme Court of India, and, if my PIL/action is struck down by the Supreme Court, to file against the Government of India in the International Court of Human Rights in The Hague. I have a very good friend in Holland who would repreent me free of any charge in The Hague but I need to find someone to represent me in New Delhi. I do not think that will be a problem. AT best, I hope to severely embarass the government on it's completely discriminatory attitude against Indian citizens, especially law abiding ones, while it grants previleges to those who are not citizens of India far beyond the rights that Indians are allowed.

I would like to have advice and suggestions from all members here on the possible ramifications of any such action on the shooting community in India - I do not want to see gun owners in India affected by this. At the same time, my blood boils at this discrimination that is far worse than even what happened to our people after 1857, by a foreign ruler.

Please post your views and I shall look forward to initiating this action when I visit India next.

Thanks in advance for all suggestions/views on this thread,

Mehul

[Grumpy]

WHOA ! Was it something I said ? Coo, I can`t help being a foreigner you know.
Good for you ! The only way that the Government of India will change its` gun laws is to have those laws legally challenged......and the more ridiculous and unfair they are, the more likely that publicity will be gained and laws changed............EXCEPT that I can see some bright spark of a Government lawyer shooting your case down in flames by the simple expedient of granting parity by denying the right of foreign visitors to enter India with guns. Don`t you just know that is what will happen ? !
For this case to succeed the action will have to be very carefully worded.
John.

[penpusher]

Mehul,

From my experience of Indian courts,I don't see the PIL going any where.You will end up wasting a great deal of time and money with nothing to show for it at the end.The provision for a temporary license was made at a time when Indian's could import firearms even through post and so was not discriminatory in any sense of the word.It became so only after the ban on the import of firearms by ordinary citizens.My suggestion is to use the money you would have otherwise have spent on the PIL to buy a lot of ammo and take out your frustration that ways

What might have some chance of success is a PIL challenging the ban on imports itself. The Arms Act itself does not provide for a ban on the imort of firearms by a specific category of licensees.It only empowers the govt. to ban specific categories of firearms and/or ammo from import.It can also ban completely the transportation of firearms.However,no where is it empowered to allow one category of licensees to import firearms and bar others from doing so. So according to me, the ban is not only discriminatory but also bad in law.

penpusher

[mehulkamdar]

penpusher,

My objective in this is very simple - to expose and embarass the netas and babus in the GoI who have stolen the rights of Indians. Indeed, if the Supreme Court declines my action, I have every intention of taking this to the International Court of Justice in The Hague. My friend there is a young lawyer who is more than happy to handle that part of the legal action for me. I have taked to her several times and it also helps that she is a shooter and hunter herself besides being the wife of an internationally reputable scientist.

If we have to do with second rate treatment by the GoI then I think it is neccessary to shame the people responsible for the state of affairs in India to an extent where their image is shown up for what it is - far less than the whitewash that they try portraying themselves with.

I hope to talk to a lawyer practising in Delhi today and shall also be talking to friends in the media as I work this out. My grandmother went to prison twice for organising Indians during the Raj. I could, at least, try to fight today's goondas in power to whatever extent I can.

Mehul

[steyrshot]

Three cheers Mehul !!!

It took a Naveen Jindal and his battery of lawyers to fight the government for the right of Athletes to wear their own countries flag on their uniform when representing the country.

It was an uphill battle for a long time, but eventually he won despite the govenments best efforts.

I think its time some of these babus learnt that the country and all in it belongs to the Indian people ... and is not their personal property or playground.

cheers and good luck

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

The reference was to 1857 and the first ban on guns in the world - by your countrymen on India. History is making you guys repent for your sins with people like Blair banning fox hunting and Major and his ban on handguns.

BTW my website mail ID is down and I barely managed to send you a cut and paste mail that you should enjoy. Please mail at my Yahoo ID until I let you know that the other one is OK.

Umang,

So I can count on you to organise the ISSF crowd for a Photo Op if I get an appointment with the de Facto or de Jure heads of the republic, can't I? Considering how hard you've defended them, they should be willing to partner with us...

Anyone else who wishes to help with organising things, please PM me and we shall discuss strategies together. Thanks for your time and for helping fight for our rights and for our sport,

Mehul

[Grumpy]

I knew precisely what you were referring to regarding 1857 Mehul - can`t blame me as I wasn`t around at the time !
I`m not a Blair fan but the Fox Hunting `ban` wasn`t directly down to him - he was ambivalent about Fox Hunting. That was a `Bee in the bonnet` of several Labour MPs - mostly left-wingers. In practice it has made very little difference as the hunts still go out.........they`re just not allowed to catch anything. Unfortunately the Hounds haven`t read the new rules..................................

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

Don't see why you have to feel guilty about Cap Hodson and those responsible for the 1859 laws. As far as Blair is concerned, was he, like one of the USA's eminences for fox hunting before he was against it? Whatever he thought about it, the fact is that he, India's commissars and Hodson were all tyrants. None of them have succeeded in what they set out to do.

India's gun laws mean that there are (by the government's owne stimates) 40 million illegal firearms in the country. Fat lot of good the laws there have done...

Mehul
:

[Grumpy]

Don`t worry Mehul - I`m not feeling at all guilty. I can forgive much of my countries colonial past as being `of the times`.......... Can`t forgive the British obsession for creating arbitrary borders all over the world though.
Shot her hubby with a GP35 eh ? That must have cost a packet - I expect the family is either loaded or well connected !
Cynical ? Me ?
Yeah, well. If ever you needed an indication of just how ridiculous handgun legislation can be just look at the UK: Since the ban on the legal ownership of handguns was introduced, crime involving illegal handguns has increased by over 300 %. Now that is REALLY effective legislation !!

[Mack The Knife]

Anyone else who wishes to help with organising things, please PM me and we shall discuss strategies together.

Mehul,

I have mulled it over and don't see why I should waste my time, energy or money on this because I fail to see how this will help Indian shooting.

I would much rather get involved in a PIL to change our gun laws across the board - permission for a NRI to waltz in and out with a firearm included but not at the forefront.

The Government of India is perfectly capable of embarassing itself without any assistance from us.

Mack The Knife

[mehulkamdar]

Mack The Knife,

Good. Now we're getting more things to work on. Can anyone compile a list of different issues we could ask for a judgement on in addition to the ban on imports and the three a head issue? I am personally affected by the travel restrictions but there should be other things that members in India are affected by.

Let's prepare a list. In the meantime, my consultations are on.

Mehul