Please help me choose a good Airgun
-
Mack The Knife
- We post a lot
- Posts: 5775
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:23 pm
-
tirths
- Shooting true
- Posts: 645
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:43 pm
- Location: Ashok Nahar, Chennai
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Gopal, If it is target practice and effort less cocking, then why not IZH 61? It has multi- shot tooGeorgian21";p="51910 wrote:Guys,
Tirtha - Answers to your questions:
- I will be using the rifle for target practice and snap shooting.
- I already own an IHP .77 and its a effort to cock this rifle when my better half tries it
Dev/Striker - thanks for the suggestions now limiting my choice to multishot rifle only.. and looking for final zeroing down
ngrewal - can you share some information on the member who is based in New Hampshire - probably I can speak to him to get rid of my confusion
goshIts confusing when you have loads of choices in US, I India I went IHP merely by the looks of it against other air rifles as it has even better finish than my IOF .315
Gopal,
-
Mack The Knife
- We post a lot
- Posts: 5775
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:23 pm
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
"Dada,
I am looking for an air rifle as per my post under air guns, I am in US and really need help in getting one rifle of good quality. my problem is I getting confused as to what to take..!
I need a multishot capability with least effort.. and good looks and performance and can even consider PCP's
Few I have though of:
Airforce condor, TX 200, Air Arms S410
QB 98 etc...
Looking for your invaluable suggestions.
Regards
Gopal"
Gopal,
You say that the rifle must have multi-shot ability, yet most of the rifles shortlisted by you are single shot rifles.
Cocking effort is a very relative thing and depends from shooter to shooter and has more to do with a correct hold and cocking technique than strength. Since you have included the TX200 in your shortlist, I will assume you still haven't shut the door on spring-piston air-rifles.
Hence, assuming that you are open to the idea of using single shot and spring-piston air-rifles, here's a list of rifles that you cannot go wrong with:
Spring-piston air-rifles:
1) Weihrauch HW80K (sold in the U.S. as the Beeman R1). This rifle is best used at 20 ft.lbs. and in .22" calibre.
2) Weihrauch HW77K.
3) Weihrauch HW97K.
4) Air Arms Pro Sport
5) Air Arms TX200HC Mk.3
6) Air Arms TX200 Mk.3
N.B.: Barring item no. 1, you should consider buying any one of the remaining rifles in .177" calibre because customs are becoming finicky about permitting .22" calibre air-rifles even though there is no law preventing someone bringing back a .22" calibre airgun as part of his/her luggage.
If you need open sights, then barring the HW80K, the HW77K is your only other option. If open sights are not necessary, then you can consider the TX200HC or Pro-Sport. Out of the box, the Air-Arms air-rifles are marginally more refined shooters. However, accuracy wise, they are both on par with each other.
Pre-Charged Pneumatics (both single and multi-shot):
1) Weihrauch HW100T or HW100S. The T and S refer to thumbhole and sporter stocks respectively. These rifles are available in three lengths - Carbine (denoted by the suffix 'K'), regular length and high-power models. I would recommend either the regular or carbine length versions. This would be my choice for a pcp air-rifle. In case you find this expensive, then you can buy the Air Arms S200 or S400 or S410. Stick to the carbine or 'classic' and if possible go for the 12 ft.lbs. version as you wont have to fill it as frequently as the higher powered version.
Mull it over and then get back with further questions, if you have any. Post your questions on the board as it may help someone else and saves me from typing the same reply again.
P.S.: I like the Airforce guns and even had the opportunity to play with one but if you keep adjusting the power wheel, you are going to have a tough time remembering the trajectories. Never heard of a QB98. If you mean QB78, then Dev has already given you his opinion about this gun.
I am looking for an air rifle as per my post under air guns, I am in US and really need help in getting one rifle of good quality. my problem is I getting confused as to what to take..!
I need a multishot capability with least effort.. and good looks and performance and can even consider PCP's
Few I have though of:
Airforce condor, TX 200, Air Arms S410
QB 98 etc...
Looking for your invaluable suggestions.
Regards
Gopal"
Gopal,
You say that the rifle must have multi-shot ability, yet most of the rifles shortlisted by you are single shot rifles.
Cocking effort is a very relative thing and depends from shooter to shooter and has more to do with a correct hold and cocking technique than strength. Since you have included the TX200 in your shortlist, I will assume you still haven't shut the door on spring-piston air-rifles.
Hence, assuming that you are open to the idea of using single shot and spring-piston air-rifles, here's a list of rifles that you cannot go wrong with:
Spring-piston air-rifles:
1) Weihrauch HW80K (sold in the U.S. as the Beeman R1). This rifle is best used at 20 ft.lbs. and in .22" calibre.
2) Weihrauch HW77K.
3) Weihrauch HW97K.
4) Air Arms Pro Sport
5) Air Arms TX200HC Mk.3
6) Air Arms TX200 Mk.3
N.B.: Barring item no. 1, you should consider buying any one of the remaining rifles in .177" calibre because customs are becoming finicky about permitting .22" calibre air-rifles even though there is no law preventing someone bringing back a .22" calibre airgun as part of his/her luggage.
If you need open sights, then barring the HW80K, the HW77K is your only other option. If open sights are not necessary, then you can consider the TX200HC or Pro-Sport. Out of the box, the Air-Arms air-rifles are marginally more refined shooters. However, accuracy wise, they are both on par with each other.
Pre-Charged Pneumatics (both single and multi-shot):
1) Weihrauch HW100T or HW100S. The T and S refer to thumbhole and sporter stocks respectively. These rifles are available in three lengths - Carbine (denoted by the suffix 'K'), regular length and high-power models. I would recommend either the regular or carbine length versions. This would be my choice for a pcp air-rifle. In case you find this expensive, then you can buy the Air Arms S200 or S400 or S410. Stick to the carbine or 'classic' and if possible go for the 12 ft.lbs. version as you wont have to fill it as frequently as the higher powered version.
Mull it over and then get back with further questions, if you have any. Post your questions on the board as it may help someone else and saves me from typing the same reply again.
P.S.: I like the Airforce guns and even had the opportunity to play with one but if you keep adjusting the power wheel, you are going to have a tough time remembering the trajectories. Never heard of a QB98. If you mean QB78, then Dev has already given you his opinion about this gun.
-
ai
Cocking effort- once muscles memorize the movement, which takes a few hundred repetitions (training), the movement becomes quite effortless (through neuromuscular adaptation). Just a basic principle of training applicable to sports.
IMO, if cost is not a significant factor, go for a PCP. For analysis, see Springer v/s PCP thread.
IMO, if cost is not a significant factor, go for a PCP. For analysis, see Springer v/s PCP thread.
-
axp817
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:50 pm
- Location: NH, USA
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Gopal,
Check your PM inbox for my reply.
I'm not on an H-1B anymore, but yes, people on H-1B visas can buy firearms, provided they meet certain critieria. From the de.scription of your work it sounds like you might be visiting on a B1/B2 or L1 visa. If you're on a B1/B2, possessing a firearm (that includes buying for use in the US) is prohibited. I think you can still buy for export purposes, but it has to be shipped straight to the place it is being exported to, and I am also not sure how things work on the Indian side. Air-rifles/pistols/BB guns are not considered firearms and you can buy them without any problem, again, not sure how easy/difficult it is to bring it to your country.
Well, anyway, we can continue this conversation on PM.
glad to help,
-N
Check your PM inbox for my reply.
I'm not on an H-1B anymore, but yes, people on H-1B visas can buy firearms, provided they meet certain critieria. From the de.scription of your work it sounds like you might be visiting on a B1/B2 or L1 visa. If you're on a B1/B2, possessing a firearm (that includes buying for use in the US) is prohibited. I think you can still buy for export purposes, but it has to be shipped straight to the place it is being exported to, and I am also not sure how things work on the Indian side. Air-rifles/pistols/BB guns are not considered firearms and you can buy them without any problem, again, not sure how easy/difficult it is to bring it to your country.
Well, anyway, we can continue this conversation on PM.
glad to help,
-N
-
Georgian21
- On the way to nirvana
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Gurgaon
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Thanks IFGians for the clarification on Air Guns, I have started making final choices and will let you know as soon as I close in 2 of them to get the best of the lot.
Naren: I am here on L1 visa for 4 years and will be travelling between India and US intermittently, is there a special clause / export certificate etc.. from US side to take the pistol back to India when I go back for good finally.
Regards
Gopal
Naren: I am here on L1 visa for 4 years and will be travelling between India and US intermittently, is there a special clause / export certificate etc.. from US side to take the pistol back to India when I go back for good finally.
Regards
Gopal
-
axp817
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:50 pm
- Location: NH, USA
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Gopal,
I typed a lengthy reply to your PM last night, and when I clicked send I realized my login had timed out and I lost everything I had typed. This time I'll just type it here, since it isn't really personal information and might help someone else in a similar situation.
You are right about Maine not having any special restrictions on firearm ownership for residents of the State. But there are Federal restrictions that prohibit non-immigrant aliens from firearm ownership and federal law supercedes State law. Non-immigrant aliens are aliens (non-citizens) that are here on a visa (B1/B2, F1, H1B, L1, etc.). They are sometimes also referred to as non-resident aliens.
Every firearm purchase is done by processing the ATF Form 4473 (you might be able to find a copy on google), and Question 11 L specifically asks if whether the applicant is a non-immigrant alien.
Non-immigrant aliens qualify to possess/purchase firearms only if they fall under one of 4 situations,
- if they are law enforcement officers here on official duty
- if they are shooting sports competitors here to participate in a competition
- if they get a waiver from the US attorney general
- if they have a valid hunting permit issued in the US.
The last option is the most feasible one. To get a hunting permit, you would have to take the Hunters education course offered by the Maine Fish and Game department, once you pass it, you can buy a hunting permit.
Once you have a hunting permit (hence meet one of the 4 above mentioned criteria) and you have lived in the same place (Apartment, house, whatever) for 90 continuous days (leaving the country breaks continuous stay), you become eligible to purchase a firearm, per Federal law, at which point State laws, if any, come into play.
Of course, if your intention is to purchase a gun to bring to India, then things might be a little different, or easier.
As far as I know, the US allows export of weapons sold here provided the laws in the destination country allow said transaction.
To simply purchase a weapon to export to another country, you don't need (this is my understanding) to establish residence here or even meet the 4 criteria. There are seperate export forms to be filled out and you are good to go. Of course, in this case, the weapon goes straight from the US dealer's hands to the exported country. You cannot take possession of it here in the US if Federal law prohibits you from doing so.
Now, I don't know how Indian TR law works for firearms, do you just need proof of purchase of the weapon in the country where you established temporary residence, or do you also need proof of possession for a certain period of time in that country.
You also asked about getting an FFL, a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is for those who wish to trade in firearms commercially, and I am not sure if you even qualify for that.
That being said, I would suggest that you look into the Indian export laws on how long a returning citizen should have had the firearm in their possession to be eligible to bring it to India while transferring residence.
If you'd ever like to go shooting while you're here, let me know, I'll bring you to our club.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask here, or via PM.
-N
I typed a lengthy reply to your PM last night, and when I clicked send I realized my login had timed out and I lost everything I had typed. This time I'll just type it here, since it isn't really personal information and might help someone else in a similar situation.
You are right about Maine not having any special restrictions on firearm ownership for residents of the State. But there are Federal restrictions that prohibit non-immigrant aliens from firearm ownership and federal law supercedes State law. Non-immigrant aliens are aliens (non-citizens) that are here on a visa (B1/B2, F1, H1B, L1, etc.). They are sometimes also referred to as non-resident aliens.
Every firearm purchase is done by processing the ATF Form 4473 (you might be able to find a copy on google), and Question 11 L specifically asks if whether the applicant is a non-immigrant alien.
Non-immigrant aliens qualify to possess/purchase firearms only if they fall under one of 4 situations,
- if they are law enforcement officers here on official duty
- if they are shooting sports competitors here to participate in a competition
- if they get a waiver from the US attorney general
- if they have a valid hunting permit issued in the US.
The last option is the most feasible one. To get a hunting permit, you would have to take the Hunters education course offered by the Maine Fish and Game department, once you pass it, you can buy a hunting permit.
Once you have a hunting permit (hence meet one of the 4 above mentioned criteria) and you have lived in the same place (Apartment, house, whatever) for 90 continuous days (leaving the country breaks continuous stay), you become eligible to purchase a firearm, per Federal law, at which point State laws, if any, come into play.
Of course, if your intention is to purchase a gun to bring to India, then things might be a little different, or easier.
As far as I know, the US allows export of weapons sold here provided the laws in the destination country allow said transaction.
To simply purchase a weapon to export to another country, you don't need (this is my understanding) to establish residence here or even meet the 4 criteria. There are seperate export forms to be filled out and you are good to go. Of course, in this case, the weapon goes straight from the US dealer's hands to the exported country. You cannot take possession of it here in the US if Federal law prohibits you from doing so.
Now, I don't know how Indian TR law works for firearms, do you just need proof of purchase of the weapon in the country where you established temporary residence, or do you also need proof of possession for a certain period of time in that country.
You also asked about getting an FFL, a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is for those who wish to trade in firearms commercially, and I am not sure if you even qualify for that.
That being said, I would suggest that you look into the Indian export laws on how long a returning citizen should have had the firearm in their possession to be eligible to bring it to India while transferring residence.
If you'd ever like to go shooting while you're here, let me know, I'll bring you to our club.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask here, or via PM.
-N
-
Georgian21
- On the way to nirvana
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Gurgaon
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Naren,
Thanks for clearing most of my doubts about the ownership of Arm in US
I will search for the Hunting license and will get back to you when I have few questions complied.
And thanks for the invitation I will surely look forward to hunting in your club
Regards
Gopal
Thanks for clearing most of my doubts about the ownership of Arm in US
I will search for the Hunting license and will get back to you when I have few questions complied.
And thanks for the invitation I will surely look forward to hunting in your club
Regards
Gopal
-
tirths
- Shooting true
- Posts: 645
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:43 pm
- Location: Ashok Nahar, Chennai
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Does that mean, your requirement is not so clear?
Initially you said you want a gun for target practice, now looking like it is HUNTING!!
Buying a car in India. Janta start with 800 and end up buying verna
Good luck to you.
-Tirtha
Initially you said you want a gun for target practice, now looking like it is HUNTING!!
Buying a car in India. Janta start with 800 and end up buying verna
Good luck to you.
-Tirtha
-
Georgian21
- On the way to nirvana
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Gurgaon
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Tirtha - Requirements pretty clear... Will get the airgun for sure..just taking some time to settle on the right one... its love n hate situation here on one model of air gun over other model better in another respect...
on the verna side
.. I just want to give it a try and if luck supports me with right documents who knows after few more months I may be in a situation to bring the big car in.... 
After all I need to devote some time to my IT job also... to keep me going here for some time..
Will write back
Gopal
-
Sakobav
- Old Timer
- Posts: 2973
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 7:28 pm
- Location: US
-
archer
- One of Us (Nirvana)
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:15 pm
- Location: Los Angeles/Mumbai
-
axp817
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:50 pm
- Location: NH, USA
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
No, the hunting license provision is for firearms in general, which includes, pistols and shotguns as well.
Also, this is only for non-immigrant aliens (people on work visas, student visas, etc., not green card holders or US citizens).
And this is federal law, some states might have additional restrictions on aliens owning firearms. e.g., In the state of Massachusetts, non-citizens (Even green card holders) can only own non-large capacity rifles and shotguns.
Also, this is only for non-immigrant aliens (people on work visas, student visas, etc., not green card holders or US citizens).
And this is federal law, some states might have additional restrictions on aliens owning firearms. e.g., In the state of Massachusetts, non-citizens (Even green card holders) can only own non-large capacity rifles and shotguns.
-
Georgian21
- On the way to nirvana
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Gurgaon
Re: Please help me choose a good Airgun
Hi All,
Update after a long time, thanks to all IFGians who took out time to reply my weird questions:
Air guns I bought -
- 1 RWS Hamerlli 850 magnum in .177 (CO2 powered and repeater 8 shot)
- 1 Beretta CX-4 Storm
- 2 Scopes
On the Hunting licence/gun ownership in Maine:
- Acquired Hunting licence
- Bought 3 Pistols (Browning BDA .380, Desert Eagle .357 and Makarov - I am visiting India and all of them are in a safe deposit box in Portland while I am on vacations, was able to test fire them at a range courtsy of IFG Member Naren)
Cost distribution/experiance:
Browning BDA .380 - $635 (The lighest trigger pull I ever fired, u shook your finger and Bang... )
Desert Eagle .357 Magnum - $1400 (A beast uses the same revolver round and has a rotary extractor, surprisingly action remains the same and you can switch it to .40 or .45 in around 4 minutes)
Makarov 9*18 - $300 (Good performer and shot the most as ammo is dirt cheap $10 a box)
Any questions please let me know and also any help in getting Co2 88gms cartridages in India will be appriciated.
Regards
Gopal
Update after a long time, thanks to all IFGians who took out time to reply my weird questions:
Air guns I bought -
- 1 RWS Hamerlli 850 magnum in .177 (CO2 powered and repeater 8 shot)
- 1 Beretta CX-4 Storm
- 2 Scopes
On the Hunting licence/gun ownership in Maine:
- Acquired Hunting licence
- Bought 3 Pistols (Browning BDA .380, Desert Eagle .357 and Makarov - I am visiting India and all of them are in a safe deposit box in Portland while I am on vacations, was able to test fire them at a range
courtsy of IFG Member Naren)Cost distribution/experiance:
Browning BDA .380 - $635 (The lighest trigger pull I ever fired, u shook your finger and Bang...
)Desert Eagle .357 Magnum - $1400 (A beast
uses the same revolver round and has a rotary extractor, surprisingly action remains the same and you can switch it to .40 or .45 in around 4 minutes)Makarov 9*18 - $300 (Good performer and shot the most as ammo is dirt cheap $10 a box)
Any questions please let me know and also any help in getting Co2 88gms cartridages in India will be appriciated.
Regards
Gopal