Silencers

[Grumpy]

So Indians can`t import firearms but silencers are OK...............( ? )
http://www.sai.dk/
and:
http://www.securityequipments.com/

[Sakobav]

Grumpy

Great find, I am positive that silencers are banned for civies in India

Rgds

[Grumpy]

Hey Navi, how are you ? You seem to have been quiet recently - have you had any of those lessons yet ?
I must admit that I was rather startled to find the notice on the first website - which leads to the second. Obviously that Indian company supplies all sorts of riot gear and so on but I can`t think of any overt security organisation that uses silenced weapons which makes one wonder what the intended market is.
I came across the Danish website whilst looking for a series of very good articles written some some ago on the effectiveness of various moderators/silencers/suppressors and which my search/memory software had `forgotten` for some reason. Found it eventually though.....only took two and a half hours !

[penpusher]

Arms Act 1959,Section 2,sub-section1,clause(e),sub-clause (ii):-

(firearm means)accessories for any such firearm designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by the firing thereof.

So the ban on the import of firearms would extend to the import of sound supressors.Will check up if the company will sell to civilians or if they sell only to the armed forces.The only silenced weapons that I have seen in the Army are the silenced Sterling carbines.I am sure there are other weapons also,but I have not seen them.The Sterling carbine relies on the sort of baffles depicted on one of the 2 websites to supress sound.

Take care,
penpusher

[Mack The Knife]

Don't think there will be any accuracy to speak off with such baffles. What is your opinion, Grumpy?

Mack The Knife

[penpusher]

Checked up with Lotus Machines, Chandigarh.Talked with Amit Gupta the Director of the company.As I had thought,they do not keep any stock of the silencers.I was told that if I have a license and get permission to buy a silencer from the licensing authority,they would foraward my order for a silencer to the Denmark based company,which after veryfying my license from the Indian govt. would send me the silencer.A little birdy tells me that its not going to be that simple or even possible.

penpusher

[eljefe]

Good academic exercise penpusher.
At least we know that silencers are made in India...now will they give Knight industries in US a run for their money remains to be seen
Best
Axx

[penpusher]

Eljefe

They are not made in India.They are imported by the Chandigarh based company.The manufacturer is SAI.Check the links in the first post.

penpusher

[dev]

What kind of weapon are you trying to suppress? There is Finnish company called Brno Tuote that makes a very nice suppressor called the Reflex Suppressor. You can do a search for Reflex Suppressors. They are competitively priced compared to the American super aircraft and forged from titanium type of thingies that cost more than most rifles. They make stuff for most firearms and have nice.22 stuff. Regards Dev.

[Grumpy]

I know all about Tuote - I have two of their T-8 moderators, one of which has recently been fitted to my Steyr Mannlicher Pro-Hunter 6.5x55.
The reason that I came across the two websites is explained above - I`m looking for a more compact moderator to fit .22 ( .22 Hornet, 5.6x50R, .222 and .223 ) centrefires and wanted to see a comparison test.

[Grumpy]

Dodger, the plastic baffle type of silencer shown is only suitable for low powered use such as with the 9mm Parabelum. High velocity rounds would destroy the baffles incredibly quickly, accuracy would be destroyed and major damage due to pressure build up is likely.
For anyone considering building a silencer for use with a centrefire rifle DON`T in any circumstances use this type of closed baffle design as your life would be at risk.
But you knew - or suspected - that anyway, didn`t you ?

[Mack The Knife]

Grumpy,

I am willing to bet that the closed baffle design (there is another term for it but I haven't been able to recall what it is since I saw this post) would destroy the accuracy of even a .22 Short.

...major damage due to pressure build up is likely....
but you knew - or suspected - that anyway, didn`t you?

Now, I wouldn't bet on that. I know the dangers of a clogged bore but it never occured to me that this type of baffle could increase the pressure to dangerous levels.

Mack The Knife

[Sakobav]

[quote="Grumpy";p="5018"]Hey Navi, how are you ? You seem to have been quiet recently - have you had any of those lessons yet ?/
quote]

Grumpy

Just the usual and this week I will finalize the dates for lessons. The coach was away for some shooting competition. Connecticut guns seem more and more desireable now. This weekend I will be going out to check some guns.

Regards
NG

[dev]

Hey Grumpy,

Do suppressed weapons make any of those sounds that we hear in the movies...that ssshduck kinda sound?

Regards,

Dev

P.S. Have seen a movie called brotherhood of the rose?

I know all about Tuote - I have two of their T-8 moderators, one of which has recently been fitted to my Steyr Mannlicher Pro-Hunter 6.5x55.
The reason that I came across the two websites is explained above - I`m looking for a more compact moderator to fit .22 ( .22 Hornet, 5.6x50R, .222 and .223 ) centrefires and wanted to see a comparison test.

[Grumpy]

Dev, there`s an awful lot of rubbish to be seen in movies and the like concerning the use of silencers. For a silencer to be effective the ammunition used has to be subsonic hence they are very effective when used with the .45ACP. Different silencers/moderators have characteristic signatures. The T4/T8/T12s all produce a distinct ringing sound when used with subsonic ammunition for example. When moderators are used with supersonic ammunition on a rifle they tame the muzzle blast considerably but the bullet still makes a distinct supersonic `crack`. How loud that is depends upon the calibre used - small calibre bullets make a higher pitched and less noisy sonic `crack` than larger calibre bullets however the noise produced is still considerable but - say - a 22-250 makes a lot more noise than a .22 Hornet. A moderated 30-06 produces a greater sonic crack than a .22-250 and more muzzle blast.
When an effective silencer is combined with subsonic ammunition in a .22lr rifle the noise produced is less than an air rifle. So much so that you can distinctly hear the firing pin fall and, in the case of a semi-auto, you hear the action cycle. Semi-autos when used with sub-sonic ammo and a moderator can be decidedly picky about ammo as many brands will not produce enough pressure to cycle the action.
Really effective pistol silencers such as the plastic baffle design used by that Danish company reduce the noise produced considerably however you will still hear the sound of the action cycling in a semi-auto which is louder than the `shhhd` noise beloved of the movies. Revolvers are not ideal candidates for use with a silencer as some blast ( and therefore noise ) escapes from the cylinder/barrel gap.
The `signature` characteristic sounds produced by different moderators can be lessened by placing a drop of oil or water between each baffled chamber and in the expansion chamber if the moderator has one; This serves to dampen the sound and helps to prevent `ringing` in thin wall designs.
Covert weaponry used by certain national security agencies - `spies` if you like - are either single shot or manually cycled. The Russians - as detailed in the link provided on another thread on this forum - developed ammunition with sealed cases to prevent blast which utilised a piston within the case and required no silencer.
The De Lisle Silenced Carbine as issued to British commandos during WWII for covert operations was an Enfield No 4 fitted with with a Thompson sub-machine gun .45 barrel, a 1911A1 magazine and a massive Maxim pattern silencer. It was so quiet that the only sound produced was that of the firing pin falling and was easily the most quiet weapon produced during the war. It was also reckoned to be accurate up to 300 yards. Bullet drop at that range would have been considerable however.