Problem in magazine loading of KF cartridges in .22 IOF

[dev]

Really neat stock on the .22 rifle, would love to have one of those.

Regards,

Dev

[The Doc]

Really neat stock on the .22 rifle,

I sincerely hope that the thumb hole has NOT weakened the stock. It looks rather "fragile" in the picture.

best,

RP.

[ebenezer]

Just change the spring of bolt which helps in ejecting the cartridge. Original bolt spring is made of very thin & low quality steel thats why it does not hold the cartridge tightly during ejection. Where as eley cartidges will work fine but some times you'll face same problem in that also. When i modifiey Denzil Matthew's .22 rifle i also faced the same problem. Just ask some gunsmith in your city to make a new spring and after replacing it your problem will get solved with KF cartridges. HTH

Dear Danish,
There is no problem in ejection at all. Both KF and Eley cartridges get ejected well. Even, the KF cartridges get chamber loaded easily, but not from the magazine.
Thanks and regards
Ebenezer

[ebenezer]

If the rim is "thicker", the bolt would be harder, or impossible, to close, but it could not affect the feeding from the magazine. Even in non K-F rounds you occasionally will find one where the rim has not been perfectly folded, being too thick for the bolt to close. If larger, i.e. too large in diameter, it could just possibly be held too low and tipped down in the magazine, depending on the configuration of the feed lips, and not get picked up by the bolt. But from the wording of the first post I can only assume that the K-F round is not being over-ridden by the bolt, will leave the magazine, but will not chamber. That would be a matter of misalignment, most likely due to bullet shape. The statement that they can be chambered singly pretty much rules out a problem with the rim of the cartridge. With a rim too thick to allow it to slide up under the extractors, the cartridge would point too high and strike the barrel breech above the chamber. With the de..scription of the problem sometimes vague and not overly technical, trying to pin down the problem becomes difficult. If I could see the rifle and ammo, I could tell you in three minutes what the problem is, and fix it in fifteen. Cheeers.

Dear Two Rivers,

I don't know how to put the problem exactly in words. I'll try my best to explain it.

I pull the bolt, the first cartridge (KF) pops up, I then push the bolt forward, the bullet enters the chamber, but the shell portion stays out. If forced into the chamber with the bolt, the shell gets twisted.
Regards

Ebenezer

[ebenezer]

You have a perfect rifle with rather close tolerances,Ebenezer. It's the ammo that's worrisome. Best of luck and happy paper punching.
Marksman

Hi Marksman,

Thanks for those comforting words!.
Regards
Ebenezer

[marksman]

Try inserting the fully loaded clip(magazine) with an open bolt and see how the rifle behaves. Sometimes when one inserts a full mag lwith a closed bolt, the top cartridge gets pushed deeper in the mag and causes this problem. You may have to change the extractors in case this doesn't work. I have seen this problem more so with a ten shot clip, even in original Brno rifles. A close friend has modified his IOF .22 rifle to take CZ(Brno) clips. Not a bad idea at all if you catch hold of a good smith. It's only the Mag catch that needs to be altered slightly.Surprisingly, the IOF rifles are impressively accurate.
Marksman

[Mack The Knife]

It's only the Mag catch that needs to be altered slightly.Surprisingly, the IOF rifles are impressively accurate.

I don't know if there are tolerance differences amongst IOF .22lr rifles but mine wouldn't house a CZ452 magazine.

[shahid]

The new CZ 452 2 E magazines are made of plastic and the catch is slightly different. May not fit in IOF rifles which are modelled on the old style Original BRNO model 2.

THis case of ammo not chambering properly seems to be more of a case of poor batch control.Perhaps the brass cases are made in a different factory or maybe outsourced to different private vendors where size differences can happen with different tooling and cutting corners to make more margin.

[TwoRivers]

Ebenezer: You say the round pops out, those K-F cartridges wouldn't be .22 Long, rather then .22 Long Rifle, by any chance? Same case but shorther bullet, and hence shorther overall cartridge. What you should do is close the bolt smoothly,without forcing things, but slowly enough to see what exactly is happening, and try to observe. And do that both with the ammo that feeds, and the one giving the problem. Bullet shape alone can make the round jam, but shouldn't affect the way the round leaves the magazine. I have had no feeding problems with my own (1960s) Brno, or half a dozen Chinese clones. Let me know what you discover, maybe we'll solve the problem yet. Cheers.

[jonahpach]

Or maybe its a case of a loosened magazine due to wear in the magazine or magazine lock resulting in a lowered mag resulting in the cartridges entering the chamber at a higher angle....

Jonah

[badshah0522]

Never try to feed the ammo forcibly as it is a Rim Fire, it can cause an accidental fire,,plz take care...

As jonah said try to insert it fully while loading it may be it can be the cause,,usually happning in .315.

[shahid]

IOF ammo is .22 LR only.

Not to be confused with

.22 Long
.22 Short
. 22 WMR / Magnum
.22 Short
.22 Flobert

Any .22 Centrefire.

It is strictly a .22 LR round with a 40 grain soft point lead bullet.

[ebenezer]

Never try to feed the ammo forcibly as it is a Rim Fire, it can cause an accidental fire,,plz take care...

As jonah said try to insert it fully while loading it may be it can be the cause,,usually happning in .315.

Hi badshah,

Thanks for cautioning. I am now chamber loading the KF cartridges and magazine loading the Eley cartridges.

Ebenezer: You say the round pops out, those K-F cartridges wouldn't be .22 Long, rather then .22 Long Rifle, by any chance? Same case but shorther bullet, and hence shorther overall cartridge. What you should do is close the bolt smoothly,without forcing things, but slowly enough to see what exactly is happening, and try to observe. And do that both with the ammo that feeds, and the one giving the problem. Bullet shape alone can make the round jam, but shouldn't affect the way the round leaves the magazine. I have had no feeding problems with my own (1960s) Brno, or half a dozen Chinese clones. Let me know what you discover, maybe we'll solve the problem yet. Cheers.

Dear Two Rivers,
There is no problem in the way the bullet leaves the magazine. It is only when the bolt is pushed forward to feed it into the chamber. As Shahid has said the KF ammo is LR only.
Thankyou

Ebenezer

The new CZ 452 2 E magazines are made of plastic and the catch is slightly different. May not fit in IOF rifles which are modelled on the old style Original BRNO model 2.

THis case of ammo not chambering properly seems to be more of a case of poor batch control.Perhaps the brass cases are made in a different factory or maybe outsourced to different private vendors where size differences can happen with different tooling and cutting corners to make more margin.

Shahid, I feel what you say is right. There is problem with the ammo. This is what other IFG friends also say. I have therefore decided not to meddle with the rifle and instead chamber load and fire all KF cartridges and magazine load all foreign ammo.
Regards,
Ebenezer

[TwoRivers]

Ebenezer: Curious and curiouser. That pretty much leaves the shape of the bullet as the culprit, and single-loading as the cure, if everything else has been ruled out, and only the K-F misbehaves. Cheers

[shahid]

These days I am shooting GECO of Germany or Amriki CCI Standard load.

CCI standard load is simply great, each piece absolutely defect free and shining bright. SO is the GECO from RWS.

IOF is miles behind these two ( a few light years behind in fact ) with no signs of improvement.

It is a great favour that ammo is actually sold in India. When hunting is prohibited what the hell do you need amo for ? Such logic, IOF have you heard of Olympics and shooting sports ?