Changing the shot in a shotgun cartridge

[mundaire]

Where can one buy the right tools to open the crimp of a plastic case Astram type or 24 g skeet / trap type shotshell and recrimp it after examining the condition of shots inside. Need just this tool no reloading kits etc.

Not sure of any tools available in India but I usually use a small screwdriver for this, it's pretty straightforward to open it and easier still to crimp it back as the plastic goes back into it's crimped shape using just fingers... This of course only works on unfired astram type of shells with a folded rolled crimp.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[browning]

I too used to use a corkscrew (wine bottle oppener). I placed it right in the center and rotated till it was firmly in place and then pulled back, the crimps opened perfectly with no damage to the cartridge/crimps and then after i was done rolled the crimps back.

Regards,
Browning.

[shahid]

I have tried this method Abhijeet, but maybe I am not skilled at it.

Opening it with a screwdriver and then on closing it, it often gets out of shape and difficult to insert in the chamber . I have had bad losses due to this failing on my part.

Perhaps I need to spend some time with you in Delhi and observe this carefully how to do it.

I have a crimpting machine ( tool ) for paper cartridges, but for very high released clays, more like a flight pattern of Geese, I need to change the no. 1 shot ( commonly available in Astram ) to no. 4.

No. 4 shot is also in Astram, red ones of 1982 Asian games time that of course misfire now.

I do know of a couple of people in India who can do this with a screwdriver, but unfortunately they too are out of India these days. There is some skill required which I must learn.

However what tool can be bought to make this easier ?

Moderators - alter the post if deemed necessary

[danish21]

Opening it with a screwdriver and then on closing it, it often gets out of shape and difficult to insert in the chamber . I have had bad losses due to this failing on my part.

You need a resizer for it. Just open the cartridge with the help of screw driver and put it in the resizer. Now change the load from no.1 to no. 4, press it tightly then put it under the crimping machine and crimp it.

[shahid]

Crimpting machine is for paper cases, not plastic. How will it close a star pattern case of Astram cartridge ?

What is a resizer ? Where can I buy it ?

How good are you at this screwdriver art ? Why not do a few ( about 50 ) for me ?

[mundaire]

For paper cases they actually use something called a "turnover tool" which along with wax and a cardboard/ thick paper piece is used to seal the cartridge.

A lot of shotguns used to be supplied with a set of reloading tools - so there are old sets floating about if you can locate one it will have the following (hand) tools:

Capper/ decapper
Resizer
Turnover tool
Die for cutting paper/ cardboard into the required size circles
Powder/ shot measure

Not sure what the going rate for such a set would be...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[shahid]

I have just the turnover tool which my Dad used to use for changing the shot in the paper case KF Special and Eley GrandPrix and AlphaMAx cartridges in the 70s.

Those were different times.

From childhood I was an able assistant, fixing the turnover tool on a workbench and volunteering to do this work for him.

He had a cartridge box with compartments which was kept next to him on his boat, where he took a position right in the front.

That box contained everything from AAA, BB, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and No. 12.

For my efforts the reward for being allowed to accompany on many of these river trips.

And when pestering too much I was allowed to load a few glass marbles in an empty shell and turn it over.

[mundaire]

Perhaps I need to spend some time with you in Delhi and observe this carefully how to do it.

You are most welcome to drop in any time you are in Delhi. You have my number, just give me some advance notice and I'll pick up some Astrams - they'll almost certainly be No. 1's so we can repack them to 6's or 7's

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[TwoRivers]

Shahid: Of course you can fire any kind of sabot slug, BRI or other brand, from a smooth bore. Just don't count on hitting anything at any distance. Being long for their diameter they need the spin from rifling to be stabilized, lest they tumble. The round ball can fly straight without spin; the non-sabot type slug carries most of its weight up front, and so keeps flying point forward. All do better with a rifled barrel. There is an astonishing number of patents and different designs for shotgun slugs, all aimed at making them more accurate, but there just isn't that much accuracy to be had from a smooth bore barrel. Unless you go up to tank cannon size and finned projectiles. Cheers.

[badshah0522]

Where can one buy the right tools to open the crimp of a plastic case Astram type or 24 g skeet / trap type shotshell and recrimp it after examining the condition of shots inside. Need just this tool no reloading kits etc.

Not sure of any tools available in India but I usually use a small screwdriver for this, it's pretty straightforward to open it and easier still to crimp it back as the plastic goes back into it's crimped shape using just fingers... This of course only works on unfired astram type of shells with a folded rolled crimp.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Even we are using Screw drivers and it is very easy to do with it.The plastic grip can be used to press back the crimp.It needs some practise ,after 10-15 shots it will be perfect.

[shahid]

Shahid: Of course you can fire any kind of sabot slug, BRI or other brand, from a smooth bore. Just don't count on hitting anything at any distance. Being long for their diameter they need the spin from rifling to be stabilized, lest they tumble. The round ball can fly straight without spin; the non-sabot type slug carries most of its weight up front, and so keeps flying point forward. All do better with a rifled barrel. There is an astonishing number of patents and different designs for shotgun slugs, all aimed at making them more accurate, but there just isn't that much accuracy to be had from a smooth bore barrel. Unless you go up to tank cannon size and finned projectiles. Cheers.

Not at all attempting to load slugs into these cartridges. I know they are higly unaccurate at anything beyond 30 to 40 yards.

Even the round punkin ball of 1 Oz in a 12 bore has an unpredictable path.

[shahid]

Abhijeet,
Is there some good quality chilled shot available in Delhi in no. 3 ? You mentioned 6,7 is it from the market or from old cartridges / replaced cartridges ?

[mundaire]

Abhijeet,
Is there some good quality chilled shot available in Delhi in no. 3 ? You mentioned 6,7 is it from the market or from old cartridges / replaced cartridges ?

These are from misfires, I never throw them away as their shot can be reused in a crunch situation. Somehow IOF seems to have determined that No. 1 shot is all it wants to make most of the time

Of course if you have a larger requirement, there are electric furnace shot making machines. But you would have to import one, also from what I have read on the net the shape of the shot produced by these machines is not perfect.

Just thinking aloud here, but wouldn't dealers be selling chilled shot to owners of muzzle loaders? Wonder what all shot sizes are available for use in those old ML guns...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[shahid]

In Up and Bihar I have seen lead shot of all numbers being sold ( from 1 to 7 and some other larger sizes ) , but it is not chilled shot and the shape is not perfect.

As for slugs, I came across a good example in Aligarh, UP during my MBA days. One resident had a Winchester die that cast out 1 Oz slugs in the shape of a hollow parabola. Much like an empty half of a capsule case.

It was a nice slug, even used to pass clea through the muzzle end of a heavily choked 12 bore gun i have ( both barrels are .710 full choke ).

However at 35 yards it flies almost a foot above the intended point of impact.

More of these need to be obtained and targeted at 50 yards to determine their trajectory.

But anyway, any sort of slug from a smooth bore is not going to produce extraordinary results. Round punkin balls in Astrams are in use in many parts but they too are inaccurate and unpredictable in most cases.