30.06 or 7mm rem mag

[Grumpy]

`LG` is the same as `000` Buck and has a diameter of .36" and an average weight of 68gr. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps each shot pellet would develope a Muzzle Energy of 255 ft lbs.
To put that in context a good 40 gr .22 WMR ( usually referred to as the `.22 Magnum` ) bullet developes around 312 ft lbs ME and retains 155-170 ft lbs energy at 100 yards. It retains energy far better than an LG/000 ball and has far superior penetration because of the much better Ballistic Coefficient and Sectional Density. Even so, NO .22 rimfire has good BC or SD figures.
At 50 yards that .22 WMR would retain c.225-230 ft lbs energy ...... very nearly as much as the LG/000 ball at the muzzle.
It should be remembered that Muzzle Energy figures are irrelevent for hunting purposes. What is important is the energy retained at the required taget distance.

[Mack The Knife]

Thanks, Grumpy.

[Grumpy]

You`re absolutely welcome Mack The Knife.
I - like you - find such matters extremely interesting as they inform and educate, especially when applied to India where shooters are so constrained by availability and cost. Shooting/hunting should not be elitist and the more options availableb the better. People SHOULD know - for example - that a .22lr is totally unsuited for Deer hunting......and ditto a shotgun loaded with 1 oz of No 7 shot HOWEVER by using a Brenneke type `rifled` slug in the same shotgun they can take deer out to 75 yds plus........providing they attach some decent sights.

And yes, I DO know that hunting is illegal in India. As with most matters on this forum I`m talking in general terms.

[TwoRivers]

Grumpy: KO Value, as defined by Pondoro, gets widely bandied about by our writers, invariably in the wrong context. It applies to solids and shots that missed an elephant's brains, or a hit in a buffalo's horn boss, knocking the animal down and out, but not being fatal. A head shot with a solid that misses the brain and failes to kill. As the realtors like to say, location, location, location. Had a buddy in the service, Scot/Cree, living in the Siskiyous in California whose deer rifle was a .22 Short RF, big game, i.e. elk (wapiti) rifle was a .25-20. But he considered 50 feet a long shot and always went for a shot behind the ear. Other than that, share your sentiments. Cheers.

[canadian gun nut]

I would say it depends where you are & where you intend to hunt in this big country. I live in Manitoba (smack dab in the centre of Canada) & if I am hunting in Western Manitoba or in Alberta where my son & oldest daughter live I would probably opt for the 7mm Remington magnum (none of the new & so-called improved super-dooper magnums will be discussed as I don't know how long they will last & their limited availability in the boonies) because of its flatter trajectory, but then what is the matter with a .270 (kicks less, costs less to reload or purchase here in Canada & has less of a muzzle blast), but when I hunt at my cottage (on the Ontario border in the Canadian Shield (essentially jungle where 50 yards is a long shot & 75 yards is unlikely) I use either my Winchester Model 1894 .30-30 carbine with a 20" barrel for ease of packing in the bush or one of my Lee Speed Carbines with a 19" barrel for the same reaons (in my favourite caliber, .303 Flanged Nitor Express 2 1/4"). Having said that, my favourite caliber & for which I have 4 rifles chambered (a Ruger #1A, a Baikal MP-221, a H. Dumoulin, a Holland & Holland light-weight de-luxe, & an FN High- Power) in is .30-06 (aka .300 Rimless Nitro Express 2 1/2"), both because we have, in addition to white-tail deer, black bear, moose, cougar & Woodland Caribou, & because I just like the caliber. I handload Barnes TSXFB 165 grainers for most stuff, Nosler 180 or 200 grain Partitions for deer with bear possibilties, 210 grain lead SPFNGC bullets for fun, and 220 grain Hornady's or 250 grain Barnes originals for the big stuff. I can always buy ammunition for a .30-06 anywhere, or at least almost anywhere in any small town & if I can't I know for sure I can get .303 or .30-30 at the trading post / general store.

I think you have to decide what your primary game will be: for pronghorn antelope, white-tail deer, mule der, or any long-distance shooting, for normal run-of -the-mill ammunition, my nod would be for a .270 or 7mm Remnigton mangum. If you also want to go after the bigger stuff, like moose, grizzly bear, then I would go for the .30-06 as you can buy heavier bulleted cartridsges for it, whether or not you plan to reload for your rifle.

Then again, why not buy 1 of each, and a .22, a .223, a .375, a .416, a .458 & a few side by side British shotguns, just to round out your battery, as it were. The more, the merrier.

If you happen to be in Manitoba, or North-western Ontario, send me an e-mail & we'll hook up to yak!

[timmy]

My 2¢:

I think that either the 7mm or 30-06 will work with the game you mention, as long as the bears you are hunting are not of the grizzly variety.

My own personal preference of the two would be a 30 06. For moose, you can use a 200gr bullet that should work quite well.

The 7mm has a good range if you are doing long range work. However, despite what so many people try to get others to think, talking about 200 yard shots is a lot easier than doing it reliably. Either the 7mm or the 30 06 will do the job if you can, and my opinion would be that to go out and buy either one as a new gun would be reasonable if you want to buy a new gun, because 303 will work just fine, too.

I am a 270 user and I do like it. Now, I'm messing with Russian Mosin Nagants and the Barnaul soft point ammo with the 204 grain bullet should do whatever I ask it to, as long as I can place the bullet properly. There is a movement afoot here in the USA to ban rifles based on the AK action. I have a 20" barrel semi-auto AK type (NHM 91) that I'm going to work up a hunting load for, using 150 grain bullets -- just to refute the point that these are not "hunting rifles."

The 7.62x39 is not even as powerful as the 30 30, but if the hunter can get within effective range and can reliably place the bullet in a vital zone, it will work fine for deer. Being able to shoot the thing accurately in hunting conditions every time is the issue: 95 times out of 100, that is the problem.

I have a healthy respect for moose and even if I were taking a 458, I would not feel safe unless I knew that I could reliably place the bullet in a vital area. The problem is that the big magnum calibers like 375 and 458 are intended for game that has tough skin and/or bones that must be penetrated before the bullet can reach a vital area.

All the power of a magnum hand cannon will not stop a dangerous wounded animal soon enough if the bullet is not placed correctly. I would consider a wounded and enraged moose pretty dangerous -- they can be more dangerous by far than your average black bear, because Mr. Bull Moose can be quite aggressive at times.

So, to sum up, my advice is to buy either the 7mm or the 30 06 -- buy what you like. Or, just fix your 303. Any of these 3 calibers will work fine on the game you've listed.

Just make sure that you can hit the vital area of the animal you are hunting at the ranges you plan to shoot reliably, remembering that the actual shot you take in the field will not be under the optimal conditions you face at the range.

BTW, you should NEVER have used a 22 Hornet on deer. It is true that large animals are taken even with a 22 long rifle. But these shots are taken at the slaughter house, where they put the muzzle to the ear of the animal. Unless those are the conditions under which you are using the Hornet, I think that those who have cried "foul" on this matter are correct.

(Which is to say, I agree also with what Canadian Gun Nut says in the previous post!)

[Sakobav]

canadian gun nut do post pictures of your guns..

Nice explanation Timmy

Best

[catfish]

Hi Indian,

I wont give you any stick regarding the .22. Will get straight to the point. The 30.06 is by far the most popular around the world. The simple reason being that its cartridge has been tried and tested for over a 100 years. Hundred years is enough time to perfect it. It is a damn good rifle and most hunters around the world have a 30.06. Presdent Roosevelt is known to have taken an elephant with it on his visit to Africa. Need I say more.

cheers

Catfish

[raj]

hi,
i think you should go for 7mm mag.
for big grizzly hunting i think .370magnum would be great. i met a man who shot a big lion in tanzania(dont know the correct spelling and place) with his .370magnum.distance was 200yards plus,and according to him that animal dropped on the spot.

regards
raj

[dev]

hi,
i think you should go for 7mm mag.
for big grizzly hunting i think .370magnum would be great. i met a man who shot a big lion in tanzania(dont know the correct spelling and place) with his .370magnum.distance was 200yards plus,and according to him that animal dropped on the spot.

regards
raj

370 or 375 mag?

dev

[raj]

sir,
he said he used .370magnum.i have heard of .375 but it was the first time i heard a hunting story of this caliber(.370mag)

[sdiversp]

I went through the same decision a while back and every hunter I know (3 or 4 of them) told me to go with 30-06. Their exact quote "Its good enough to take any game in North America". I use to have a 7mm Remington Magnum and sold the rifle after putting a $350 BOSS (recoil reducer) on it. The recoil was too great for me to practice with it. I just picked up a Savage 30-06 and plan to have more time behind it. All the hunters I have talked to told me you can walk into any hunting store (middle of Alaska to south of Alabama/Texas) and get 30-06 ammo. You can walk into a hunting store in Africa and get 30-06 ammo, although the newer Magnum rounds are big these days. 7mm Remington Magnum is a very flat shooting round good to 400-500 yards (further than 30-06) but how many times are you going to take a shot at the next time zone? Concur with Timmy. 30-06 you get varied and very good loads all around the world from deer to bear.

[kragiesardar]

Much wider bullet selection for the 30.06, if you are hunting brown bear both are a bit light, black bear both would work. My 7 MM is a Mark X, very accurate, personal preference is 30.06 though. I guess if you have the option to own as many guns as you want you can have both . The hornet is marginal, great cartridge for fun varmint hunting. Have an Anshultz in Hornet. Would not use it on deer.