YF-23 the also ran ATF

[OverUnderPump]

Loved the design on this bird. The lines on it remind me of the SR 71 Blackbird. I always thought and felt that the SR 71 Blackbird design was going to be used again in some form or the other and here we are.Shame that it lost out to Lockheed Martins F-22 design. But there are chances of a revival in the offing

[web height=400]http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/dat ... com-03.jpg[/web]
Image courtesy www.defencetalk.com

regards

OUP

[fantumfan2003]

Liked the YF-23 any day than the present F22 it was competing with. Even secretly wished it wins the competition..it should have coz it was more manouevarable than the F22 but the F22 won on cost.

Loved the design on this bird. The lines on it remind me of the SR 71 Blackbird. I always thought and felt that the SR 71 Blackbird design was going to be used again in some form or the other and here we are.Shame that it lost out to Lockheed Martins F-22 design. But there are chances of a revival in the offing

[web height=400]http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/dat ... com-03.jpg[/web]
Image courtesy www.defencetalk.com

regards

OUP

[OverUnderPump]

Yep bud, greenbacks rule any day when it comes to defense expenditure. I wish there was some kind of a way by which other countries could acquire them,namely India , instead of going for outmoded F16s.

regards

OUP

[hamiclar01]

Yep bud, greenbacks rule any day when it comes to defense expenditure.

an army marches on it's stomach, as le petit caporal commented, remember?

I wish there was some kind of a way by which other countries could acquire them,namely India , instead of going for outmoded F16s.

F22s have been dangled in front of the IAF. the fact that we are collaborating (read.... have money in)with the Berkut does not make this an easy decision for our defence planners

[fantumfan2003]

I am convinced our defense planners do not have the last say in equipment procurement.
Had that been so we would have had C-130H instead of An32's,LCA's would have been at least half a decade old in squadron service and Hawk AJTs in service in at least the early nineties........No sir....Its always the babu's who rule the roost in our land.......

Yep bud, greenbacks rule any day when it comes to defense expenditure.

an army marches on it's stomach, as le petit caporal commented, remember?

I wish there was some kind of a way by which other countries could acquire them,namely India , instead of going for outmoded F16s.

F22s have been dangled in front of the IAF. the fact that we are collaborating (read.... have money in)with the Berkut does not make this an easy decision for our defence planners

[hamiclar01]

LCA's would have been at least half a decade old in squadron service and Hawk AJTs in service in at least the early ninetiesd...

I'm afraid i don't really share your faith the the DRDO. and I'm quite sure the americans would not resist the temptation to use spares for C130 as a bargaining chip. state business IS a cruel trade. the choices are difficult, and not exactly choose-plane-punch-credit-card-number-click-shopping-basket with a 28 day return.

back in 1954, when p.c. lal and his team tested and rejected the supermarine swift as an air defence fighter, another little plane caught their fancy. what was surprising was that it was not even being offered for sale. yet, lal, moolgavakar and roshan suri, flying it themselves, were so impressed, that they wheedled a contract out of it's designer, w.w. petter.folklore has it that a shared passion for cricket helped. thus, the gnat saga was born in the IAF. the little figher served with distinction against more modern and costlier opponents.

but the lesson in the tale is that neither p.c. lal, nor moolgavakar, or suri, were pan chewing, desk polishing babus. and it is a warm , reassuring thought. after all, most of us pitting our intellects on this are armchair theorists with little first hand experience on what is exactly going on.

[OverUnderPump]

F22s have been dangled in front of the IAF. the fact that we are collaborating (read.... have money in)with the Berkut does not make this an easy decision for our defence planners

Yep, the Berkut investment does muddy the decision making waters a bit. I hope we get a fair mix of Combat aircraft, as opposed to keeping all our eggs in one basket. Just a fervent hope .

regards

OUP

[Sakobav]

Bharat rakshak website is one of the best sites to pose such Q/A or to have discussions on Indian planes and history. The key reason why IAF chose AN 32 is cost, trusted ally, the plane was redesigned for High and hot Indian theaters and AN 32 replaced the old work horse AN 12. IAF has purchased few C130 for special forces. No doubt C 130 is one of the greatest plane ever built but cheaper alternate combo of IL 76 and AN 32 has served IAF well.

best

[OverUnderPump]

Bharat rakshak website is one of the best sites to pose such Q/A or to have discussions on Indian planes and history. The key reason why IAF chose AN 32 is cost, trusted ally, the plane was redesigned for High and hot Indian theaters and AN 32 replaced the old work horse AN 12. IAF has purchased few C130 for special forces. No doubt C 130 is one of the greatest plane ever built but cheaper alternate combo of IL 76 and AN 32 has served IAF well.

best

Yep thats the perfect mix of transport aircraft, if only we could have something similar on the combat aircraft side. Just so, that we dont become overly dependent on one particular make or country.

regards

OUP

[fantumfan2003]

Three An-32 from the first batch were mysteriously lost on their ferry flight to India.

Premature engine problems with engines and structural failures with MiG-29s, refusal to own up the problems on the part of the Russians.

Refusal to honour warranties on the Su-30MKIs citing agressive manouvering of aircraft by the IAF as the reason.

And there must be many more we wont know about.

DRDO must also go through its share of pain and agony while developing cutting edge technology items. Just as the Americans did.

The approach must be two pronged. Indeginous effort and technology collaboration with a reliable partner.

India waved off 1.1bn (dollars or rupees, I don't remember) as a friendly gesture to Russia. They in turn reciprocate by talking money money all the time now.

I would bet my money any day on French or British Aviation equipment (Mirage 2000, Jaguar and Hawk AJT) instead of Russian stuff.

You may disagree. Thats okay, I agree to disagree.

[Sakobav]

Fantum

IAF actually wanted Mirage F1 and had to settle for MIG 21 plus Soviets would barter with material and saved us foreign exchange. I agree now situation is very different but IAF will probably end up with a mixed inventory to keep every one happy. Which in long run is a nightmare for maintenance cost.

Russians weapons are held in high esteem by many of western experts. Remember their tactics and technology were different but they were effective. An IAF expert once mentioned how innovative the Soviets were he gave examples and details, a retired USAF officer seating next to us completely agreed.

Rakshak guys have oodles of info on DRDO achievements and failures.

Best