Pakistani company builds a sidelock self opening shotgun

[mehulkamdar]

Gentlemen,

Please check out the guns on this website. Compared to the junk made in India it looks superb. Now when is Indians' competitive spirit going to come in and get our people to beat our neighbours? Each link takes you to pictures of guns that are absolutely beautiful. Shame on our authorities for restricting our gunmakers to an extent where PAkistan had beaten them hollow!

[dev]

The only disparaging thing I can come up with is the .22 is an exact copy of the Marlin 75 c. Darn them all...where are you Jonah when we need you?




Regards,

Dev

[mundaire]

The quality of even the locally made guns from Peshawar is supposedly quite good. These local gunsmiths make almost exact copies of several military style firearms as well - the AK series to name but one!

A lot of the better ones used to be made from imported Belgian steel, not sure if that is still the case - or if the local steel industry has progressed far enough to provide good raw material.

The privately owned Indian gun manufacturers seem saddled with painfully low yearly quotas, that throttle investment in new equipment and/ or research & development. Making a good gun is not exactly rocket science and there is no reason why the local chaps cannot produce high quality firearms - so long as the quotas are done away with!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[jonahpach]

hmm... somebody mentioned my name? ahem.. The trouble with us indians (stuck up here in india at least) is that we are either reluctant or never allowed to go the whole way. Even if entreprenuers were allowed to manufacture guns, either the banking system (i.e. finance) or government would alway stop us from going the whole way.

We would not be allowed to import the latest equipment, rawmaterials and other necessary 'bought out items' Banks would not give us the necessary amount required and we would have to make do with shoddy equipment and rawmaterials.

I think our government and its policy makers have a lot to learn from our neighbour china.

[Edited] Someone with a simple hacksaw, file and bench drill and welding machine can give our ordinance chappies a run for their money!

[ Moderator note:- Jonah you are treading a very fine line here, lets err on the side of caution, shall we? Next time, I'll be forced to yellow card you!]

[mundaire]

Talking of "raw material" - Indian steel is actually quite good, with several companies manufacturing very very good steels - SAIL, Tisco to name just two...

One could find funding as well... the problem is getting the the required permissions to manufacture guns in any real quantities!

Getting a gun license is hard enough - imagine what someone applying for a manufacturing license would have to go through!!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Kshatriya]

As long as the guns IOFs manufacture for our Armed Forces keeps them in good humour, I am willing to make do with the stuff they supply for the civilian market.
Let's keep the forums for the purpose they are supposed to serve & any anti-India sentiments ought to be discouraged strongly.

[mehulkamdar]

As long as the guns IOFs manufacture for our Armed Forces keeps them in good humour, I am willing to make do with the stuff they supply for the civilian market.
Let's keep the forums for the purpose they are supposed to serve & any anti-India sentiments ought to be discouraged strongly.

What anti India sentiment are you talking about? This is by far the most ridiculous post on any forum anywhere that I have seen. Are you aware of the number of failures that the IOF's military products have caused? And their junk quality control procedures come down into the civilian arms that they sell as well. If you were pro India and really wanted to make sense, you would be out condemning the pathetic state of affairs that is in place in the country that most of us on this forum are citizens of.

No one needs a certificate of patriotism from a no-name participant who has neither the courage to speak up about what is dreadfully wrong in the country that he claims to love and who talks out of his hat about anti Indian sentiment by being a public apologist for what is disgraceful in India and needs to be rectified.

[Mack The Knife]

As long as the guns IOFs manufacture for our Armed Forces keeps them in good humour, I am willing to make do with the stuff they supply for the civilian market.

Do you have a choice?

Let's keep the forums for the purpose they are supposed to serve & any anti-India sentiments ought to be discouraged strongly.

So according to you, every Indian should turn a blind eye to everything the GOI does? BTW, this forum isn't just about better gun rights (not privelege) but the right to have far better guns at sensible prices as well.

The Perfidious Persian.

P.S.: Mehul, have you checked your blood pressure lately?

[Kshatriya]

Guys, the thing I referred to being anti-India lies in the 4th post.U have got it all wrong, its not about IOF or the quality of guns it makes.I do hope u get to what I was pointing to.If u do, maybe u could edit the posts maligning me.Having served as a second-generation defence officer, I do not further wish to prove my credentials.

[Mack The Knife]

Doesn't seem to be Jonah's day....

Kshatriya, I will let Jonah defend his corner but to avoid misunderstandings in future, please quote or copy and paste the relevant post or part you are refering to.

Now then, back to the Paki Meisterstuck (how in hell do you add an umlaut?) or I will lock this thread. I am dying to try out all these extra buttons.

Mack The Knife

[Kshatriya]

I have been dying to get my hands on a 12 bore PA, So to me the ones on that site seem like a distant dream.
Many of the previously controlled sectors in the defence market have been opened to the companies like Mahindra & Tata, so it is not mere wishful thinking to say that the road ahead for the small-arms sector also seems promising.

[mundaire]

Kshatriya,

Am afraid this time you've got to stand up and take the criticism!

The fourth post did indeed have something objectionable in it... but it had nothing to do with patriotism or the lack thereof - Jonah who posted it, knows what I am talking of, as he would know what part I edited.... And a lack of patriotism it most certainly was not!

The worst thing a patriotic Indian can do, is to stand and watch while this sorry state of affairs continues! If one loves ones country, then why shy away from identifying the problem? Which I am sure you will agree, is always the first step towards correcting it.

IOFB has a very sorry record post-independence, and it is commonly known within defence circles to be the single most corrupt organisation in the Indian defence establishment.

If your life depended on it - what would you rather have in your hand? A cheaper BUT at the same time better engineered gun OR a far more expensive to produce BUT more prone to failure IOFB product?

It is not a lack of patriotism to criticise a sorry bunch of fellas who are putting at stake the lives of thousands of patriotic men and women in uniform - due to their personal greed and overall lack of responsibility!

In fact I would go far as to offer, that for every 1 soldier who lost his life due to a malfunctioning rifle/ INSAS - ten of these IOFB chaps should be shot! Starting top bottom of course... senior most IOFB officials will the 1st to be lined up!!! Then watch the quality improve.... wouldn't be surprised if IOFB surpasses the best gun makers within a year!!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Mack The Knife]

In fact I would go far as to offer, that for every 1 soldier who lost his life due to a malfunctioning rifle/ INSAS - ten of these IOFB chaps should be shot! Starting top bottom of course... senior most IOFB officials will the 1st to be lined up!!! Then watch the quality improve.... wouldn't be surprised if IOFB surpasses the best gun makers within a year!!

That's all very well, Abhijeet but what if the firing squad is issued IOF made rifles.......

[Kshatriya]

Of course I am all for it. These forums would be meaningless if we can't put across our points like adults & in the process, maybe influence the IOFs to mend their ways.
The patriotism factor or the lack of it has come nowhere in play.
The freedom of expression of one's thoughts, should not be extended to the act of promoting or implying, in any way, that u are a citizen if India just because u have not been allowed to switch sides.
If anything else is implied, the poster has to specify it. I might have misunderstood the comments.
The IOFs just like the HALs have a lot to contribute towards the losses suffered by our men in uniform & it should be condemned.
Pls. do not read my earlier post out of context.
It was a hypothetical "if & then" statement, that stated a situation, which stands negated by the arguments posted by other members in the subsequent posts.

[Grumpy]

It seems to me that there is a very obvious point being missed here - there is no point in any manufacturer producing quality firearms in India until the domestic market is available to absorb such products. Whilst India has highly restrictive gun ownership laws no-one is going to risk such a venture. No-one in their right mind would risk manufacturing such products for export only with the attendent burdens of shipping charges, import duties, main distributors profit margins, etc. A domestic market would have to be established first.
As regards IOF I`m in the embarrassing position - as one of the few non-Indians that frequent IFG - of having to say that internationally they are pretty well regarded as a joke. No other country in the World would tolerate such shoddily produced goods. I cannot imagine the circumstances in which they are allowed to pass off near junk as acceptable quality. I suppose that the only situation that would alter this would be a major failure of weaponry supplied to the Indian armed forces.......however the risk to those forces would be considered intolerable elsewhere. That military personnel might have to die to change the current status quo is surely inconceivable to any right minded person.