IOF 315 rifle and cartridge

[shutzen]

Thank you guys, so does gun accessories sell it with the scope or does it come with one in the STP model or what? I remember seeing a 315 with a nice big scope on it which seemed pretty decently worn. No extra ugly cuts anywhere but mounted on a rail like any other rifle.

So Shutzen it seems like a decent one to have just for shooting, nothing serious just to have something that makes more noise that a .22 and the reassurance that if a herd of rabid urban pigs went man eater I'd be one up.

Regards,

Dev

HI! well Dev if its about the noise you are welcome to stand about 200 M in front of it and about the same moment you hear the noise you will "feel" it also. -just a joke- Over the last 17 years since I put the scope on I have fired over 200 shots through it and it always worked . I am posting close up pics of the scope & mounts. I used a handrill , taps to drill & tap the breech block and the side of the receiver block . I used a piece of spring steel to support the weaver dovetail rail on the rear. In the front it rests on the breach block. Did it at home with my servie acting as my helper . Anyways here are the pics:

side view


bolt side view


action open view


well thats it still going strong. Let me know when you want to "hear" it though

[dev]

HI! well Dev if its about the noise you are welcome to stand about 200 M in front of it and about the same moment you hear the noise you will "feel" it also. -just a joke- Over the last 17 years since I put the scope on I have fired over 200 shots through it and it always worked .

Thanks for the pics pretty neat job but I'd rathet stand by ye and hear it. Remember the old saying," With friends like thee..."

Regards,

Dev

[kuduae]

But Shahid how is the 315 for average shooting needs like taking care of a pest boar or shooting a few targets now and then. Does it have a scope rail? Guess it should be able to handle this much atleast.

Dev

Hi dev, I have got no experience with Indian wild pigs (sus scrofa cristatus), but they are the same species as our German wild boar (sus scrofa scrofa), only slightly smaller. Now, I ought to have some experience with shooting wild boar. In the hunting grounds under my direct supervision, about 60 square kilometers, 360 of them were shot last year, with the total German harvest being well over half a million in 2007. Most pigs are shot in woodland at ranges well under 100 yards/meters, a shot at over 150 y/m borders on the ridiculous!
A fairly soft 8mm bullet of 225grs at 2200fps is rated as the near ideal boar medicine over here, much more reliable a killer then a 30-06 150grs high speed load, so I think the ballistics of the .315 IOF to be equally well suited. Both hunter and pig would be hard pressed to notice a difference! Well, I tend to prefer the long, heavy bullet of high sectional density and moderate velocity of the 8x50R/.315 IOF to any high velocity load for brush hunting. It will kill more reliably from most angles without destroing as much meat as a high speed bomb. Well, a .375 Nitro Express (270@2150, not Magnum) or a .450 Nitro for Black (350@ 1900) are even better....
As to scoping a Lee type action: Here is an example how they did it in merry old England in the pre-WWII days. I have just posted two photos of my BSA made .303 Lee-Speed rifle in my personal album, click the "Album" button below. It has got a 2 3/4 Zeiss "Zielklein" scope in an -also German made Akah- quick detachable side rail mount, with the mount base screwed and soft soldered to the left action wall. Not the slimmest or neatest arrangement, but it works! Of course, the useles dust cover of the Lee-Speed was removed.

[TwoRivers]

penpusher

Just back from a long holiday in the hills.Checked out the IOF 315 rifle and ammo and here is what I found:-

1.The 315 cartridge is not an invention of the IOF.I would not like to name the cartridge that they have copied.Somebody just might try to shoot the IOF ammo in the rifle for that cartridge.The cartridge is dimmensionally the same as the IOF 315 cartridge.What I have been able to find about the cartridge that forms the basis of the IOF 315 cart. is :-

i)It fires a 244 grn bullet at about 1980 fps

ii)The long shaft is used to stabilise the bullet in the barrel

iii)Bullet has almost a parabolic trajectory

2)The 315 bullet itself is poorly constructed.The copper jacket is too thin , not properly fused with the lead core and has a tendency to seperate.That probably accounts for the copper jacket tearing off and lodging in the barrel.

3)The older cartridges were also poorly constructed.The bullets are not seated properly and mostly tilt in one direction.The neck of the cart is also not evenly sloping.Fresh ammo is however better constructed.The case necks are annealed.

4)Ammo was earlier loaded with cordite.Fresh ammo uses some sort of powder.

5) The primers are highly corrosive.The best way to clean the rifle is to pass hot water through the barrel after even a single round having been fired.So for this reason would not recommend buying a rifle second hand.

6)The barrels are well constructed.

7)The action is smooth (if you choose your rifle correctly)

8)The factory sights are totally useless.

9)The stock is rudimentary to say the least.

As I have said ,the fresh ammo is better than what was being manufactured earlier.A friend tried it out and gave a good report about its performance.


Take care,
penpusher

[dev]

Hi dev, I have got no experience with Indian wild pigs (sus scrofa cristatus), but they are the same species as our German wild boar (sus scrofa scrofa), only slightly smaller. Now, I ought to have some experience with shooting wild boar. In the hunting grounds under my direct supervision, about 60 square kilometers, 360 of them were shot last year, with the total German harvest being well over half a million in 2007. Most pigs are shot in woodland at ranges well under 100 yards/meters, a shot at over 150 y/m borders on the ridiculous!
A fairly soft 8mm bullet of 225grs at 2200fps is rated as the near ideal boar medicine over here, much more reliable a killer then a 30-06 150grs high speed load, so I think the ballistics of the .315 IOF to be equally well suited. Both hunter and pig would be hard pressed to notice a difference! Well, I tend to prefer the long, heavy bullet of high sectional density and moderate velocity of the 8x50R/.315 IOF to any high velocity load for brush hunting. It will kill more reliably from most angles without destroing as much meat as a high speed bomb. Well, a .375 Nitro Express (270@2150, not Magnum) or a .450 Nitro for Black (350@ 1900) are even better....
As to scoping a Lee type action: Here is an example how they did it in merry old England in the pre-WWII days. I have just posted two photos of my BSA made .303 Lee-Speed rifle in my personal album, click the "Album" button below. It has got a 2 3/4 Zeiss "Zielklein" scope in an -also German made Akah- quick detachable side rail mount, with the mount base screwed and soft soldered to the left action wall. Not the slimmest or neatest arrangement, but it works! Of course, the useles dust cover of the Lee-Speed was removed.

Thanks Kudae apologies for not doing so earlier as I was tied up/ chained to work. So it seems pretty okay to get one if I can swing the second rifle deal at the licensing office but I am pretty torn up between this and a handgun. I might just run out of courage and stick to my little .22.

Regards,

Dev

[TwoRivers]

Grumpy: Yes, there is such a thing as a ".303 Sporting". Two, actually. Seems that after the last Great Debacle quite a few Lee-Enfields had found loving homes in the French countryside, but were illegal, being a military caliber. So, set the barrel back a turn or two, and rechamber to a shell shell shortened by 2 mm, and you have the 7.7x54R, aka ".303 Sporting". CIP lists it. A very smilar round was developed in Australia, New South Wales, if memory isn't betraying me, for the same reason. Then there was the .303 rimless , or semi-rimless, by Fraser for Mauser actions. Cheers!

P.S.
Ever come across any .32-40 sized Martinis in your wanderings trough gun auctions? Love that action for anything based on the .30-30 case. Sweet!

[TwoRivers]

Standard twists of Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles/catridges were as follows: 6.5mm/200mm/7.87"; 8x56/250mm/9.84"; 9x56/280mm/11"; 9.5x57/300mm/11.8". The Steyr 8x50R also has a 250mm twist, perfectly adequate for the 244 grain bullet. As far as accuracy with lighter bullets is concerned, the culprit is not the twist but the long throat and deep grooves of these old military calibers. Plus the fact that the military bullet was of open base design and would readily upset and obdurate the bore, whereas a bullet with solid base cannot do this to the same degree.
When the Hungarians adopted the Austrian M31 cartridge they apparently decidided to start from the upper end of tolerance to enable them to refresh the rifling of M95 rifles on hand, and re-cut the rifling (not rebored) and rechambered. Twist is the same for Austrian and Hungarian 8x56R rifles, and ammo is interchangeable. Also, they may have been prohibited under the Treaty of Triaon to have ammunition commonality with Austria (or Germany), and took an easy way around. These old military calibers were designed with deep grooves and wide lands and usually used a bullet smaller than groove diameter, bullet diameter was then increased when a lighter, shorter bullet was adopted. Hope this clears things up a bit.
Cheers.

[shahid]

Came acros a Holland and Holland 1910 Catalouge which was reproduced in 1976 as a collectors item.

That Item lists H & H Lee Enfield Bolt action rifles.

Available for 12 Guineas ( Pounds Sterling I assume ) Lee Enfield Action rifles in .303 and 8 mm / .315.

It also talks of a great double caliber in those days called .465 India. This is not the topic to discuss this, will start another string later, as this is the .315 topic thread.

This discovery goes on to prove that the LE Action .315 was a fairly popular cartridge / caliber in British residencies / colonies overseas.

For hunting Deer sized game a lot of other calibers were also recommended which I will list in another topic. Plenty of trivia in there.

[shahid]

I can`t be bothered to deal with idiots. I`ll just explain one more time that BSA built rifles might have converted to .315 in India but they didn`t commercially produce .315 rifles. PERIOD !

Guru Grumpy it has now been researched and discovered that not only BSA but even the holy of the holies H & H also produced Lee Enfield action .315 rifles.

Eat crow.

[TwoRivers]

Shahid: He just may, if you call it "rook" and cook it in milk. (Ah, isn't revenge sweet!.)

[penpusher]

But was that .315 the same as the IOF .315 cartridge

[TwoRivers]

Absolutely, penpusher, one and the same old Austrian 8x50R Mannlicher. Cheers.

[shahid]

Absolutely the same 8 x 50 R of the old Austrian, Hungarian and Bulgarian service Rifles.

This rifle as a civil use calibre has been in existance since 1910 s decade. Perhaps even 1900 s.

[Vikram]

Tworivers,

If you go through previous posts, especially on page 16 of this discussion, though the 8x50R seems to be the closest,it has not been conclusive enough to suggest the IOF .315 and the 8x50R are the same.Any reasons why you would think they are one in deed?Thank you.

Best-
Vikram

[Sakobav]

The saga of .315 IOF goes on and we have all learnt quite a few nuggets of information along the way with lively contentious exchanges. Shahid is correct rifles were made by H and H. I am no expert on such things listed below is an email. Its should shed some more light and lets try not to talk over or down to each other. Maybe experts could figure out whether IOF .315 is same as one listed below. Other option is getting hold of some one at IOF. Best

------------------
Thank you for your enquiry regarding .315 Lee Enfield rifles and the Holland & Holland connection.

Holland & Holland has never made Lee Enfield rifles but have produced Sporting rifles built around the Lee Enfield or what was known as the Lee Speed action. These actions were fitted with new H&H barrels, had the mechanism re-worked, stocked with best quality walnut and finished in the traditional H&H style. ( far from the rifles pictured on the Indian Ordinance web site.

The rifles we produced were offered in two calibres .303 & 8mm ( which according to an old Kynoch ammunition catalogue was 8mm / .315 Mannlicher ) which quite correctly was as listed in the H&H brochure circa 1910.

I hope this clarifies the situation and if you feel that I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.