Colt U.S. Property (Model 1903 M)

[firearm]

Hello,

I was looking for a .32 colt U.S. Property and I came across one.... It is quite in good condition..green finish and one spare mag. with it . Dealer is quoting more than 5lacs i am finding it quite a high price 4 it... Pl give me some advice whether I should go 4 it or not.....

Firearm

[cottage cheese]

Hello,

I was looking for a .32 colt U.S. Property and I came across one.... It is quite in good condition..green finish and one spare mag. with it . Dealer is quoting more than 5lacs i am finding it quite a high price 4 it... Pl give me some advice whether I should go 4 it or not.....

Firearm

.32 Colt US Property? perhaps you mean the Colt1903 Pocket Hammerless. Green finish? Maybe its patinated Phosphate finish(Which turns greenish with age). This version of the 1903 seems to be a wee bit uncommon since it was oddly a .32cal pistol made for the US Military...so it could have some collectors value.

Well 5-15-30lacs.... this is the state of affairs in our country. In my book, anything worth more than it actually should is expensive. In spite of a week full of hearing about insane prices, I think 5lacs is still plain robbery.

I saw an ad on gunsamerica.com offering a 1944 vintage piece for $1695- Roughly Rs.65,000...so that should give a rough estimate of what a collectors piece would be worth.

The IOF peddles its clodhopper junk pistol which is loosely based on the 1903. It costs the same...about Rs.65,000...seeing its quality and build it shouldn't be worth more then 10K as Abhijeet said.....and I hear they're pipping it up by another 11,000 or so, sometime midyear. You could try burning your fingers on one before it gets too expensive.

Anyway, 5lacs somewhat on the lower side of the insane range so if you can spend that money and you are sure that the gun is in good condition, buy it. But I shan't be happy with your decision

[james]

One of my friend got it for 2.75L ,mint condiction with original box and spare magazine,This was nov-2007.Really dont know where this is going to go...James.....

[art_collector]

James,

Just dont go by the green finish.....I heard that the parkerised finish (the dull green color) can now be done again....the process ofcourse is different....what is now used is a color coating (havent seen any but just heard). The writings /itchings can be done again . So a new mint condition might be old wine in a new bottle. Yaa if u manage to find a firearms from an individual licencee who has had the weapon for 15-20 years on his licence u cud be safe. The color and writing with a computer is just 10 years old.

Now start hunting for your mint revolver and pistol

Goodluck

[amk]

Why do you want to buy this? Just get the IOF pistol and spend some money doing it up right. Definitely a lot cheaper than this century old pistol.

AMK

[firearm]

Thanks guys....... if it doesn't worth that much I am not going to go after it.....


Firearm

[eljefe]

tell him to take a hike, jack!

[amk]

tell him to take a hike, jack!

???... Tell who to take a hike? Who's Jack?

AMK

[arjuna]

this was interesting just thought will post for u guys
arjuna

American Handgunner, March-April, 2006 by Gary Paul Johnston

With self-loading pistols fast becoming the rage at the turn of the last century, Colt and Fabrique Nationale were at the forefront. Since both companies used designs patented by John Browning, they initially agreed Colt would concentrate on recoil-operated pistols while FN would make models operating by simple blowback. However, with FN's overwhelming success with the 9mm Browning Long caliber Grand Modele. Colt arranged to have Browning take out a U.S. patent on the pistol in 1902.
The result was a smaller version of the Grand Modele in .32 ACP for which Browning would be paid a royalty of 40 cents each. Called the 1903 Hammerless Pocket Automatic Pistol. or Model "M" by the Colt factory, the gun would be made in a number of variations from that year until 1946 with a total production of more than 572,000 pieces in that initial caliber. Let's look at the breakdown.
Divided by collectors into five issues, the First Issue Model "M" had a 4"-barrel with a removable barrel bushing. Made from 1903 through 1910, this version in .32 ACP had a narrow extractor, black checkered hard rubber grips with a scalloped band with the word "COLT." above a rampant horse and ran from serial number one to 71.999. During this time changes were also made in the patent date (about serial number 10,000) and the cocking serrations (about serial number 30.000).
From 1910 to 1926. beginning with serial number 72.001. he Second Issue Model "M" had a 3.75"-barrel, but was otherwise identical to the First Issue. At serial number 95,801 the extractor was widened to accommodate both the .32 ACP and the new .380 ACP round (detailed below). Beginning with serial number 100,459 the separate barrel bushing was omitted and a few changes were made within the slide and to the recoil spring group. In addition to the bushing change, the Second Issue also saw several grip variations. The version ran to serial number 105.050.
Except for its checkered walnut grips with nickel Colt medallion, the Third Issue Model "M" was identical to the Second Issue. and was made from 1926 to 1945 beginning with serial number 105,051. During production of the Third Issue the Tansley magazine disconnect safety was added with serial number 468,097, creating what most collectors, recognize as the Fourth Issue Model M. This variation ran to serial number 554.000.
As part of the standard commercial Fourth Issue Model "M" is the Military counterpart that ran from serial number 554,001 to 572.214. All of these .32 ACP caliber Military Model "M" pistols are stamped "U.S. Property" on the right side of the frame and have the Ordnance Department "flaming bomb acceptance mark. Initially finished in blue, the Military Model "M" was Parkerized beginning in 1944 at about serial number 562.000.
After World War II a few Military Model "M" .32 ACP caliber pistols were left over with the U.S. Property stamp, but without the Ordnance mark, and a few more were assembled from left-over parts. The latter had polished blue slides with grip straps in matte blue. The last number of the .32 caliber Model "M" pistols is believed to be 572,215.
.380 ACP Model "M"
Not only was the 1903 Pocket Model "M" made in .32 ACP, but also .380 ACP, a cartridge believed to have been conceived especially for it. However, because this variation has its own serial number sequence, it's dealt with separately for the sake of clarity.
Making its debut in 1908, the First Issue .380 Model "M" was made until 1911 from number one to 6,251 when the Second Issue .380 was introduced. This version was made until 1926 from serial number 6,252 to 92,893. The Third Issue .380 ACP Model "M" is the same as the Fourth Issue .32 ACP, and was made through 1945 with the Tansley magazine safety added at serial number 92,894, and running to 133,349.
As with the .32 ACP Fourth Issue Military version, the Third Issue .380 ACP ACP Model "M" was made for the Military and was also stamped U.S. Property, but had a blued finish with serial numbers running from 133,350 to 138,009, some of which were preceded by the letter "M."
Most Collectible
Even more collectible than any of the above versions of the Colt Model "M" are special order pistols, namely those with special grips, or that are engraved; various engravers applied their art to these pistols through the years. Some of the most famous included Gough, Kornbrath and Cuno A. Helfrict.
Model "M" pistols engraved between 1910 and 1913 were listed as having 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 coverage, while those engraved from 1913 to 1929 were described as grade one, grade two and grade three coverage. From 1929 through 1941 the grades were changed to "A" through "C."
Factory records indicate that of the early Model "M" .32 ACP pistols, 50 were engraved with 1/2 coverage and only three were given 3/4 coverage. The pistol illustrated is in the number 135,322, having been made in 1912, and is one of the three early Model "M" .32 ACPs engraved with 3/4 coverage. This includes the top, back and front of the gun. This outstanding example of Colt factory engraving is believed to have been done by Cuno A. Helfrict. The grips are Colt mother of pearl with the Colt medallion, indicating the pistol did not leave the factory until 1913, the first year medallions were used.

[arjuna]

check this site for photos of 1903

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model ... Hammerless

Arjuna

[mundaire]

Thank you for the information Arjuna, made for some interesting reading - can you also edit your post to display a link back to the original article? It's from a copyrighted source and that's usually the bare minimum that's required while posting such articles...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[HydNawab]

Firearm

5 lacs is too high a price for a 1903 hammerless .32 no even if hes giving you 2 extra, original box and if its in 100% condition.

Last time I checked there were 4 available in good condition between the price range of 2.75 - 3 lacs and there were not many people interested.

Ashar

[marksman]

Nothing wrong with 5 lacs,IMHO. That's the price prevailing for handguns in Mumbai at least, if it is in the condition mentioned. Some one from our forum bought a Colt 38 Super for 7.5+ Lacs, If I remember correctly. The pistol originally sold for 1.25 Lacs., was chromed and later sold for the amount I mentioned. It had an old world original charcoal bluing when I inspected it. What prompted the 1st buyer to chrome it, I fail to understand for it looked very beautiful as it was. BTW, I have come across quite few of these 1903 Colts (U.S.Property) over the years. They are very accurate for their size with good ammo and very reliable if not tinkered with foolishly.
Marksman

[HydNawab]

Marksman

That Colt 38 Super was bought by me for 7.5 Lacs.I later found out that the ammunition later provided was 38 Auto and not 38 Super so I had to return it and I was aware of the fact that the gun was nickel plated.

Ashar

[marksman]

oops!!!! It wouldn't sell in Mumbai easily due to its ability to digest 9mm parabellum ammo. That's one reason I didn't go for it. Anyways, alls well that end well buddy.
Marksman