A step in the right direction

[Prabhath]

Members,

This was published in TOI today. India at last is moving from the days of the IOF and INSAS.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/AK-1 ... 793608.cms

[Mack The Knife]

"The Russian arms company, Izhmash, will shortly issue a licence to an Indian private arms manufacturer with whom negotiations are at an advanced stage."

Now this is interesting and I wonder who it is.

[cottage cheese]

Members,

This was published in TOI today. India at last is moving from the days of the IOF and INSAS.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/AK-1 ... 793608.cms

Hi Prabhath,

Thanks for the update.

Well a few thoughts from my twisted brain (They are not specifically directed at you) .....

1. The key words here are "an Indian private arms manufacturer" - I think the worth of the whole affair will hinge on that. Well and good and certainly a start if its a private manufacturer- certainly a retrograde move if its going to be IOF after all- It would be akin to taking a license to remanufacture a dressed up willys jeep.
2. While I'm a wee bit infected with the optimism.. one thing I'd like to know is who is this private manufacturer?
3. The AK100 series is early nineties vintage. While the materials are fairly uptodate- The basic core of the series remains the old AKM. The changes are more cosmetic than technological. Why bother? If the government is ready to allow private manufacture, there are certainly better and more up to date arms that can be manufactured under license(Though not many that are cheaper)
4. How long can they sustain domestic sales? Its not like the police and paramils are going to be buying AKs for eternity. Unless they intend to raise new battalions on a weekly basis. I think it'd be cheaper to simply import AKs than to manufacture them if that were the case.
5. Unless India is destined to be a mammoth police state, there are only so much rifles that can be sold. What then?
6. Isn't this indirect proof and admission by the government that the INSAS is just not it?
7. The last sentence in the article is bakwaas.

Regards,
cc

[mundaire]

I'm not particularly optimistic, as I don't see anything coming out of this for the normal civilian shooter/ enthusiast, they are only talking about assault rifles which will (obviously) be only for the men in uniform... The rest of us will remain condemned to either make do with IOF made junk OR pay ridiculous prices for imported guns!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[nagarifle]

hi

at least if its true there is someone else who would be making fireams apart from IOF and if they are better then IOF who knows they may aim at civil market.

good or bad atleast its a starting point, taking away the monoply from IOF.

nagarifle

[mundaire]

hi

at least if its true there is someone else who would be making fireams apart from IOF and if they are better then IOF who knows they may aim at civil market.

good or bad atleast its a starting point, taking away the monoply from IOF.

nagarifle

AFAIK in these cases the licenses given to private manufacturers (at least in the case of the license given to Mahindra & Mahindra), have certain conditions attached. One condition is that they cannot export their production, the second is that they cannot sell to civilians (only to the government) and finally they have no guarantee that their submitted designs/ prototypes would be selected by the government.

I think it was these very conditions that led Mahindra to sit tight and do nothing even after they received a license to produce small arms, as after investing a considerable amount of money in R&D and tooling up they had no assurances that they would be able to sell their production anywhere if the submitted prototypes were rejected by the government.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[nagarifle]

that my view

[eljefe]

Well, the item seems to better crafted, and hopefully the metallurgy is superior too-thats waht the chaps in the stall were harping-wonder if 'we' are buying aluminium inserts...
so, with such stringent conditions , wonder if Indian Armed forces are going the AK way in toto? INSAS only for ragtag armies who pay in rupees?
What happens after the first million are made? sell 315 semi auto variants to the aam janta?

[kanwar76]

hi

at least if its true there is someone else who would be making fireams apart from IOF and if they are better then IOF who knows they may aim at civil market.

good or bad atleast its a starting point, taking away the monoply from IOF.

nagarifle

AFAIK in these cases the licenses given to private manufacturers (at least in the case of the license given to Mahindra & Mahindra), have certain conditions attached. One condition is that they cannot export their production, the second is that they cannot sell to civilians (only to the government) and finally they have no guarantee that their submitted designs/ prototypes would be selected by the government.

I think it was these very conditions that led Mahindra to sit tight and do nothing even after they received a license to produce small arms, as after investing a considerable amount of money in R&D and tooling up they had no assurances that they would be able to sell their production anywhere if the submitted prototypes were rejected by the government.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Okay, I understand they don't want to sell it to civvis but what is the problem in exporting... why the hell government don't want to make money

-Inder

[mundaire]

The ban on exports is to do with some government policy... AFAIK the Govt. of India has a Government to Government ONLY policy on exports of weapons... I could be wrong though, but am quite certain a ban on exports was part of the license issued...

BTW if a private sector player exports to overseas markets the Govt. doesn't really make any money, unless they decide to levy an export duty or something to the effect.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[kanwar76]

BTW if a private sector player exports to overseas markets the Govt. doesn't really make any money, unless they decide to levy an export duty or something to the effect.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Yep Abhijeet,

Thats what I am talking about, let private parties make firearms and let them export.. levy a export tax on them (Apart from that I am sure there will be many exisiting taxes from which government will make money). Why don't these people understand we are a poor country..any money is good money...


-Inder

[amk]

I think the ban on exports is to do with some sort of international treaty controlling arms sales; only Govt. to Govt. arms sales permitted.

AMK

[cottage cheese]

I think the ban on exports is to do with some sort of international treaty controlling arms sales; only Govt. to Govt. arms sales permitted.

AMK

...Thats why IOF 9mms are available in the US with a certain importer/distributor....

Thats typical establishment double standards and hypocrisy I think.

[mundaire]

Lots of Ishapore SMLE's also made it to the US market... both in 7.62 and .303, I think some small quantities of the SMLE .410 muskets were also exported.

What most people do not realise is that since service calibres are PB in India, the government has a huge problem in terms of disposing of these guns as they get phased out... the answer - don't relax the rules here, just export the damn things for a pittance!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[nagarifle]

The bans on firearms are not to do with the international treaty etc.
This I say because in Europe and USA one can import arms if one has firearms licence and an import licence, which is not to difficult to get.

The ban is a local way to create unfair and unjust life for the people.
Let us face it India being India, and Indian arms being Indian arms, would u buy them if u did not have to?

Lets us not forget as some us are little older and may have a different historical prospective. In the 80's India was going through socialist phase and every thing was nationalised.

Very few exports and even less imports were allowed. Do u have any idea how long u have to wait for a car to arrive after putting an order?

India as it is well known, have not moved away from the British law and way of doing things as the British rules was not aimed at the wants and needs of the local.

Since independent 60 years ago the Indian legal system has not changed much. The Nehru Ji policies were in place until the 90’s. Since the 90’s the policy change took place. That’s why more Indians have prospered in the last 20 years then before.