30.06 or 7mm rem mag

[indian]

my .303 has a prob with the mag.it dosent fix properly.but i think nobody in this forum beleives me the prob arised suddenly coz there was no prob when i took it to the range...........................

[eljefe]

Indian, you are close to the 'gunland'- check out Numrich arms or KKK corp and order yourself a new mag for the 303.
Before you do that, get it checked out by a competent gunsmith if
a.It is a retention problem-the retaining part(s) in the rifle's magazine well or the spring is weak, needs changing
b. Feed problem? check springs and floor plate.
Do you remember how to feed the ammo in an Enfield? make sure rims dont overlap or you'll end up with a double feed and jam

Who is it made by? and what ammo are you using in it?
As for the 30-06, the sky's not the limit...so many configurations, cant buy them all.
No guilt,go out and get your self a decent 30-06 with a good scope
best
Axx

[Risala]

Sanjay,

I am not sure where you got the "pick up game at greater ranges" bit from.

See the chart in the link below.

http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/30_06_springfield/

Mack The Knife

I think there was a mention on SGW,but per this write up,the ballistics of the 7 mm Mag are far

superior than that of a 30 06,so it might just be the better choice between the two for deer,elk,though for

bigger game a heavier load option offered by the 30 06 might just pack that extra punch.

Sanjay

[Mack The Knife]

What is SGW?

[Risala]

shotgunworld.com,is the best place for info on shotty's

[Grumpy]

The use of a .22 Hornet on deer is virtually criminal - with only around 400 ft lbs energy retained at 100 yards it is just not up to the job unless you can shoot well enough to go for a head shot.
The .22 Hornet isn`t in the same class as the 22-250 which makes two and a half times the muzzle energy and retains over three times the energy of the .22 Hornet at 100 yards. The .22 Hornet is a delightful little 100/150 yard small varmint calibre. The 22-250 can be used on any varmint - including Coyotes - out to 300 yards plus and is suitable for use on small deer........ but you don`t have small deer in Canada.
The 7mm Rem mag makes a little more energy than a 30-06 and shoots flatter ........ The 30-06 is much more versatile with a far wider range of bullet weights available. The use of heavy bullets also gives it the advantage as far as KO value is concerned. You can also use `Light Magnum` cartridges if you so desire in which case the energy advantage lies ( just ) with the 30-06.
A similar new rifle chambered for either would cost the same but the 30-06 has a distinct advantage as far as the availability - and choice - of ammunition is concerned.
As far as the .303 is concerned you have one of the top specialists in the world ( if not THE top specialist ) based in Canada - Elwood Epps, who is located just North of Orillia in Ontario. What he doesn`t know about .303s isn`t worth bothering about.
http://www.ellwoodepps.com/
Get in touch with him regarding your .303.

[indian]

thanks everybody for the replies....i will contact ellwood epps grumpy.....

[z375]

indian,

For the sort of game you're going after, especially the bears (you failed to mention whether black, brown or grizzly!) I'd opt for a .338 Win. Mag. or a .375 H&H Mag. calibers like these give you slightly better chance of coming back home in one piece from a bear hunt! I'm not side-lining the .30-06 and the 7mm Rem. Mag, they're both great, flat-shooting calibers for medium-built game like deer, and in a pinch they'll drop the biggest bull moose too with a well-placed shot in the vitals, whether or not they'd effectively stop or kill an enraged grizzly or brown bear when things get ugly, is a situation noone wants to be in and I've heard from some friends in Canada that these things do happen, quite often.

Try out a friend's .388 Win. or a .375 H&H or both, for that matter and stick with the one with which you are comfortable and can shoot well. The .388 and the .375 both are hard-hitting calibers with considerably more punch than the '06 or the 7mm Rem. they also have trajectories that will comfortably cover most hunting scenarios upto 300 yards, this depends upon what distance you zero them in for. Hope this helps, take care and shoot safely and responsibly. Please dont use a .22 Hornet on deer again, its cruelty against your quarry and you could be fined, imprisoned, or both and you're hunting permit will be suspended. "Being over-gunned beats the alternative" - Elmer Keith

Cheers!


Zubin

[shahid]

I am always a firm advocate of a bit of overgunning than undergunning.

For roe deer or munjtac the minimum rifle would be a .243 and not even .223, forget about .22 hornet, but it is going to be legal in the UK soon, use of 22 centrefire calibres for small deer.

Fallow deer or the medium family - minimum .270, although a 30-06 is always more suited but a .308 would also do in most cases.

Elk, bear, leapords and anything more - go for the .375 mag, if not then atleast .300 mag or some other doubles.

Dangerous game / african big game - .500, .577 or the .458 win, Lott or Weatherby mag.

Close range shooting of medium deer sized game, say shooting upto 200 yards, the 7mmx57 ( .275 ) still has no parallel.

[indian]

thanks z375 and shahid..i tried the 338 once and it was a bit punishing.i think the 375 will throw me.. by the way,i hunt black bears z375.

[Grumpy]

If you found the .338 Win Mags recoil uncomfortable don`t even bother to consider the .375 H&H.................
The ideal would probably have been the .338-06 which is a necked-up 30-06 and quite suitable for use on Elk and Black Bear but with more managable recoil than the .338 Win Mag however the only commercial manufacturer - Weatherby - have ceased chambering rifles in the calibre.....and sourcing ammunition would be a problem anyway unless you reload.
If you`re going to change your rifle the 30-06 will be fine - just use 220 gr bullets for Elk.

Let us know how you get on when contacting Elwood Epps by the way.

Shahid, the use of centrefire .22s is legal in Scotland for use on Roe Deer ONLY BUT they have to develope 1000 ft lbs muzzle energy so the .22 Hornet is not legal as it doesn`t develope anywhere near the required energy. The law in England/Wales IS likely to change in the near future to allow the use of .22 centrefires on Roe, Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer ( NOT Fallow, Sika or Red Deer ) but will be subject to the same minimum energy levels. This means that the minimum legal calibre will effectively be the .222 Rem which is widely used on Roe deer in much of the rest of Europe but is considered somewhat underpowered in Scotland.
The .22-250 is a fine calibre for small deer like Roe and and its ME far exceeds the minimum requirement. The .223 Rem is also excellent for the role - especially with 72 and 80 gr bullets. It`s not as powerful as the 22-250 but comfortably exceeds the minimum power level.

I`ve become dissatisfied with the performance of the .243 Win on Fallow Deer and am getting a 6.5x55. In the meantime I`ll continue to use my 30-06.

[shahid]

Well yes, the .256 or the 6.5 x 55, 6.5 x 57 and what I have a 6.5 x 54 MS are great for medium to large size deer game, enough for anything in UK upto Red deer stags.

And overgunning it and useing this on Roe, Waterbuck and Munjtac ( Barking Deer ) will give excellent results.

In the UK do they hunt Munjtac with Buck shots with a say 12 Bore ?

[Grumpy]

Shahid, the minumum calibre/Muzzle energy requirements in the UK are as follows:

"England, Wales and Northern Ireland

For deer of any species a minimum calibre of .240 inches (.236 inches in Northern Ireland) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement. In Northern Ireland the minimum bullet weight is 100 grains.

Scotland

For deer of any species the bullet must weigh at least 100 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND minimum muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds.

or
For roe deer the bullet must weigh at least 50 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000 foot pounds.

It must be stressed that all these figures are the minimum legal requirement.

In all the above areas the bullet must be of a type designed to expand/deform on impact."

Information supplied by the BASC.

From that it would appear that the use of shot cartridges for deer hunting is illegal - I have always assumed so anyway, although there may be certain circumstances in which the use of shot cartridges are allowed. I believe that the use of shotgun cartridges is allowed for the humane destruction of injured deer but that is a legal area with distinct restrictions as only recognised experts are allowed to humanely destroy deer - eg, Vets, Licensed Pest Control Officers, Licensed slaughtermen etc. By `Humane destruction` I am not referring to to deer shot and injured during stalking and the necessary `coup de grace` when the animal is located but animals injured in automobile accidents, etc.
Whilst the Muzzle energy of the combined shot charge will - in some cases - comply with the required legal standard, the energy per pellet is considerably below the legal minimum and I therefore cannot see how shot cartridges can be legal for use in UK deer hunting. Eg, There are 10 pellets in a 1 1/4 0z load of `OO` buck shot. Assuming a total ME of 1800 ft lbs each pellet will only be of 180 ft lbs ME. Because of the inefficient form the pellet will shed energy extremely rapidly and at - say - 40 yards range the retained energy will be nearer 100 ft lbs per pellet.
The use of shot cartridges cannot be condoned for use on deer - even small deer - due to the low energy of an individual pellet, the spread of shot and the extremely short effective range of shot cartridges.

[Mack The Knife]

Grumpy,

Not to sidetrack the issue but what is the muzzle energy of a LG pellet?

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

[indian]

grumpy,contacted ellwoodepps about .303 magazine and they said they could fix it but told me to bring it after december as they r very busy right now