Gunshot wounds

[Grumpy]

OverUnderPump, there are many bullets types that can cause much more tissue damage than the simple hollowpoint.
Controlled expansion type bullets are designed to have the jacket open up into a `cross` shape to maximise tissue - and shock - trauma and are also designed for that expansion to take place gradually so that adequate penetration takes place.
See this for example :
http://www.remington.com/products/ammun ... bonded.asp

[hamiclar01]

[/quote]

Have seen some guys who have tried to end their lives by firing a shot gun inside their mouths.

AKA the Hemingway solution (very nearly so, for the hair splitters ). my favourite slides in airway management lectures

[Grumpy]

Oh thanks a bunch Anand - that`s just too graphic.
- This place is turning into medical convention.
I`m beginning to think that the Physicians Posse need their collective heads examining.

Come to think of it, there`s even a member who can oblige with that as well !

Is every other Indian a flipping doctor ?

[OverUnderPump]

OverUnderPump, there are many bullets types that can cause much more tissue damage than the simple hollowpoint.
Controlled expansion type bullets are designed to have the jacket open up into a `cross` shape to maximise tissue - and shock - trauma and are also designed for that expansion to take place gradually so that adequate penetration takes place.
See this for example :
http://www.remington.com/products/ammun ... bonded.asp

Thanks Grumps' Thats one for my book, .Would never want to be on the wrong side of a speeding chunk of metal. And I did see a distorted jacket like the one you just mentioned,one helluva bone/flesh splitter.
So does the thickness of a jacket also determine the amount of distortion a bullet undergoes.

Could you tell me which one would do more damage, an FMJ pointed tip or round tip. My understanding is that pointed tips are more useful in anti armor situations and can pass through the target cleanly if propelled via high powered rounds. Would Round tips distort during penetration and exhibit similar behaviour as hollow points ?

I need to chat up Grumps on Skype, hope you wont mind Grumps.

[nagarifle]

hi
intersting article on gunshot wounds. i think every arms owner should be tought or have some idea of blistic wounds managment. One must never forget to look for the exit hole, which does not have to be oppisit side of the entry hole. Bullets do bounce of bones and hard flash or musle and exit somewhere else.

Also type of wound does depent on volicty / mess of the flying object. Then there is the way the object trevels would make different kind of impact on the body. Any flying object that enters the body would collect dirt etc, on its way in.

Howerver one must fouce on treatment of wounds rather then what type of bullets causes max destruction. As the treatment tends to be the same. As to which cal bullet causes max damage, get hold of the FBI's blistic report.

[The Doc]

Bullets do bounce of bones and hard flash or musle and exit somewhere else.

Nagarifle,

Projectiles do bounce off bones and never from muscles or HARD flesh ( black or white ). They get embedded in skin /muscle depending upon many factors. I have seen and treated a guy with a bullet entry wound in the upper thigh near hip joint where the bullet had ricocheted from the thigh bone in to the lower pelvic cavity. Obviously there was no exit wound.

Howerver one must fouce on treatment of wounds rather then what type of bullets causes max destruction. As the treatment tends to be the same. As to which cal bullet causes max damage, get hold of the FBI's blistic report.

Correction here pal,

The PLANNING of the treatment , the choice of antibiotics, the extent of initial debridement and cleansing of the wound and the need to remove the projectiles would largely depend upon the type of firearm and the calibre used and ofcourse the location of the projectile. No need of FBI ballistics guy. Though it might seem same but in my field cases are NEVER similar and thus the treatment.

best,

RP

PS Are you a doctor ?

[The Doc]

Is every other Indian a flipping doctor ?

Kind Sire,
The percentage of Indian doctors in India is LESSER than the percentage of teenage single parents in the Great Britain .

best,

RP

[Grumpy]

"The percentage of Indian doctors in India is LESSER than the percentage of teenage single parents in the Great Britain ."

Is that right ?

That`s hardly an answer. On that basis, even if the number is a few percentile points lower than the incidence of unmarried teenage mothers in the UK the number of `flipping` doctors` in India must be vast - millions upon millions of the bugg*rs all rushing around trying to grab a patient. I mean, just look at Punjab: The doctors up there have it so easy that they spend all their time "baccy chewing, brandy swilling, gun toting and kicking ass"........
AND sending their bad tempered, arrogant students over here to annoy me !

[Grumpy]

By the way, that last sentence above refers to someone specific.......who is not a member of this forum.
Although the way things are going he probably will be soon........judging by the number of `gun toting` Indian doctors anyway.............................

[nagarifle]

hi Doc
thanks for the slight correction regarding metal bouncing on tissue. i would agree with you that no two cases are the same. however basic emergency treatment is the same ie plug holes and patch up. Would u not agree that antibiotic and debridding etc would be doen at the hospital by docs etc, rather then at site ie location of injury? as the first post which started all this is regarding emergency treatment rather then hospital treatment.

as an emercency medical rule i tend to check all blistic entry wounds which are above the knees for exit wounds all over the torso, as others exprince has shown that exit wound can be else where higher up in the body. Many times one does not check for exit would under the arms( arm pit) as few have died even though they have recieved good treatment at the site of entry wound.

as to your question if i am a doc? no i (was) trained as a combat medic while taking the Queens shilling.

nagarifle

[Grumpy]

" i (was) trained as a combat medic while taking the Queens shilling."

Surely HM is paying rather more than a shilling nowadays ?

Whereabouts did you serve Nagarifle.

[nagarifle]

Hi Grumpy
ok they are paying more these days, but HM does not pay what the boys in the green would desire, no free beer either , acutally when i singed on they gave me ten quid for expance to come to the recuriting office, the bug*3r took that out of my first pay. i left few years back, posted to germany(Minden), Canada, belize, gib, belize is best. now in sunny indain clims, working on my suntan(i don't need one but still)

are /were u in greens?

nagarifle

[Grumpy]

"are /were u in greens?"

Only when I wear my camo gear.

A friends son has just been posted back to Afghanistan - he`s a Captain and was in the first wave......which was pretty rotten because of supply problems. The SA80s worked fine though........which is good news.

[nagarifle]

hi Gurmpy
Afghanistan 3-GB -0 as my memoire goes we never had much luck with the afgans even way back in 1700 onwards. Sorry to hear about ur friends son in second time around. not the vikings? by any chance ? was with then for few weeks around 84. happy to learn that the infamous SA80 has improved, i used it in 87 when it first came out, would have liked to burry it in horse sh*t. it had lots of problems, i had one nesty time with it in Canada on trainning, the rifle would not fire not matter how much i cleaned it, how much i pulled the trigger, gave it to my sergent who was not happy with me, took it to the armour who thought i was pi**ed. He tried but still did not work. He told me to get lost. unable to use the SA80. then the next day it worked. damm usless piece of kit. we found the best way to clean it was to take it in to the shower with us and let have some hot spray, letter they changed its name to Rifle Enfiled 5.56 but SA80 name stuck.

nagarifle