Sticky situations you have been in

[penpusher]

penpusher

[dev]

But Grumpy is only 54? And we aren't more than a decade away unless a mugger gets us as I pull my IOFB .22 and hope that the mugger doesn't know its an IOFB .22.


Regards,

Dev

Met several members who conceal carry and do a damn good job of it, just hope that they are never pushed to go bang.

[veejosh]

I have had friends who have had sticky situations with one being lucky (????) and one not so...
Tea gardens have been known for their unrest and when it’s by illiterate masses who are inebriated it’s difficult. The first person’s company had decided to amalgamate the factory with a neighboring garden and he happened to be around when the disturbance started. He was badly beaten and left for dead when a few workers took him to the office from where he sneaked out. When the workers realized he had managed to reach the bungalow they surrounded the bungalow and tried to set it on fire. He had his wife and a friend of hers who was visiting. He had just 12 rounds and about 1000 odd surrounding the bungalow. He had to take a quick decision He warned them. The next thing he has is an arrow sticking on the window. He then let off dropping a guy. The next person who picked up the ‘mashaal’ was dropped too. This gentleman is still fighting it out with the Unions in the Courts for more than 25 years.
The next was a Manager who apprehended a guy cutting trees in the Garden. The next day the workers surrounded his office and pelted stones. When he felt it was going out of control he fired with his revolver in the air. All 1000 odd that had gathered fled. He rang for the cops and waited. This was the time all gathered and came and when they pelted stones he fired but then they were just too many and the moment he was hit it was the end. The cops came in a bit too late.
I know this because one is in the neighboring garden and the other I went to receive from the mortuary.

Sticky situation!!! One stuck and the other …

[Grumpy]

"Groan................."
That is a terrible joke Veejosh.
LOL
So, of course, now I`m wondering if any of your story is true or was it all just an elaborate set-up for your diabolical sense of humour ?

[Pran]

>The next day the workers surrounded his office and pelted stones. When he felt it was going out of control he fired with his revolver in the air. All 1000 odd that had gathered fled.

A very crazy thing to do. The mob could've gotten wild and killed him. I remember this one incident(which I saw on TV) where a zilla panchayat member from Kolar was attacked by 50 odd people. He used his double barrel shotty to threaten them and even shot 2 or 3 of them before the mob killed him.

Pran

[diskaon]

shooting into a mob is the worst way to commit suicide.Voilence is power as long as it is a Threat for voilence. as long as you threaten someone that you will shoot he will be scared, but the moment you shoot.. you have changed the status quo.

[Risala]

The tea gardens in the North East are famous for labour unrest.

Know of 2 cases my self,where shots were fired in one case the person survived after suffering serious injuries this was in the 80's,this guy was huge & packed a .380 Llama and a .30 Carbine,in the other case that was more recent about 4 yrs ago he didnt make it though he managed to fire a couple of rounds from his Webley,it was covered on the national tv networks.

Now with the militancy problem,things could have just got worse.

Sanjay

[penpusher]

These 'examples' should answer the question,"WHY do civilians need semi-automatic rifles/shotguns".In some situations firepower is essential for survival and these illustrate this very well.

[Pran]

These 'examples' should answer the question,"WHY do civilians need semi-automatic rifles/shotguns"

penpusher, I'm not sure a semi-automatic would be of much help when surrounded by a 1000 people.. Though I personally feel it is an exaggerated figure.

A quote from Veejosh's post explains what someone would go through after trying to defend himself/his family.

"The next person who picked up the ‘mashaal’ was dropped too. This gentleman is still fighting it out with the Unions in the Courts for more than 25 years. "

Pran

[veejosh]

Hi Grumpy,
I am not here to prove any thing or gain any sympathy. I just feel that guns if not used justifiably and/or if you are not lucky may not always be the way out. If you feel the part was concocted please check the links below. The last link takes you to the archives of the telegraph. Just google "LOCKOUT IN RIOT-SCARRED TEA GARDEN" and you will have the story of my friend.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/bli ... 740400.htm
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050215/a ... 379072.asp
http://www.telegraphindia.com/archives/archive.html


As for Pran's feeling of the figure of 1000 I still feel it is the one by most "conservative estimates".

I still feel that the personal arm should be pulled out as the very last resort and there after only God helps the one on ethier side of the weapon.

Best
Vikas

[mundaire]

In 1984 my Dad and 2 of my maternal uncles fought off mobs attacking our colony for 4 straight nights - they had one M1 .30 carbine and two revolvers between them... Not once had the guns had to be fired at a person, firing in the air was enough to disperse the mobs each and every time. After the 4th night, our other neighbours finally began to come out of their houses and finally a local "defence committee" was formed and several other armed residents joined them in patrolling the streets. By then the worst of the riots were over and the also miscreants knew by then to avoid our area...

During the same time, another maternal uncle used to run a factory at the outskirts of Delhi (on GT road) - his factory was also attacked by a mob and he used his handgun to down 2 of the leaders... the rest of the mob melted away and his factory was left alone - while several other Sikh businesses in the area were razed to the ground...

At times like this armed resistance is the ONLY way out, you cannot negotiate with people bent on burning you alive and killing your family... you CANNOT hope to beg them to spare you with any real hope of success... this is not about bravado - it's about survival! Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not - either which way, the alternative is to simply roll over and die... I know which way I'll be taking - what you decide to do in this sort of situation is entirely your choice!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Pran]

At times like this armed resistance is the ONLY way out, you cannot negotiate with people bent on burning you alive and killing your family... you CANNOT hope to beg them to spare you with any real hope of success... this is not about bravado - it's about survival! Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not - either which way, I know which way I'll be taking - what you decide to do in this sort of situation is entirely your choice!

You've got a point there.

>the alternative is to simply roll over and die...

Makes sense to take as many people as you can with you

Pran

[mundaire]

Pran,

Also check out the story Veejosh has mentioned - Lockout in riot scarred tea garden. It would seem that this was not just any mob attacking the gentleman, but a mob intent on "revenge". The motivation would have been very different from rioters/ looters... Also the article is not clear about the exact situation when Mr. Mann started firing at the mob... if it would have been from a slightly safer distance - this would have allowed members of the mob (especially the ones at the back) to begin to discreetly begin to "disappear", and when that happens in a mob, the entire mob very quickly looses it's courage and one's chances of escaping are decent.

However, if you wait until the mob is almost upon you before taking out your gun and firing, then the mob does not really have much of an "escape route" as the ones in front are being "pushed forward" by the ones behind and you'll end up running out of ammo and being beaten to death/ lynched!

Therefore, when in such a situation - the best way out is to display your firearm early enough and let off a couple of rounds in the air... this allows the prospect of having to face bullets sink into the mob psyche much before they are within distance to cause you harm. The biggest dissuading factor here is that you can do them damage much much before they are in a position to return the favour...

Just my $0.02 on this...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Pran]

Abhijeet,
Mob mentality is tough to understand. Here's a small incident I went through about five months ago.

I was trying my hands at forging at this industrial land that my dad owns on the outskirts of the city. Villagers frequent the empty land next to our property to play during holidays/weekends. I saw this one guy climbing our compound wall and stepping on the flower bed while getting his cricket ball. Obviously pissed, I asked him to use the gate or not to get into our property. One things led to another and this guy yelled out for his friends. The gardener/watchman who looks after this place ran home and pulled out a machete to threaten these guys, which worsened the situation and suddenly I found myself and surrounded 25-30 people and some of them had picked up my poker, hammer (feels very crappy when someone threatens you with a poker you've forged yourself!) etc and things turned ugly. I ended up apologising for a a mistake I hadn't done. The incident was a traumatic one for me(I have never done any forging there on weekends/holidays again). The watchman was threatened by a few of these guys who got drunk and came back later in the night.

I'm still not sure what I should've done if I were armed with a fire arm that day.I was in a good mind to drive the poker into one of them but common sense prevented me from doing so.

This said, it's very difficult to say how the mob would react to one of it's members being hurt.

Pran

[TenX]

Matter of fact, every post above is right in somew way or the other. As far as I know, Mob Control is a very vast psychological study, and there is every chance that something may happen - the unpredictable.
When I first moved into my new house, I had only 2 neighbors in the 16 acre vicinity, and the ongoing dacaity was in full zoom. Fortunately for me, I practiced air pistol shooting inside my house, and had some practice sessions with another good co-shooter of mine (Prakash) in the garden. Little did I know that people in the neighborhood villages talked of me as the 'gun-man', and safely avoided my house. My immediate neighbor was attacked, around the same time, and about 11 of them stormed the house, broke eveyrthing they vould not take, and he felt too damn threatened to stay with his wife and kids anymore. I then got him a SBBL (it tool 3 months fro the license and stuff), and he made it a point to fire in the air every sunday morning. That probably kept him off the robbers' list. However, after more neighbors moved in (and complained of his gun's loud noises), he has safely stored it away.
I have also heard stories from some inspectors who gave the 'leader' of a mob, a thorough bashing, which made the others flee.
All I am saying is that Mobs and rioters are immediate, unpredictable and insane. There are no actual directions and planning in most cases. And as Mundaire stated above, either give it all you got and hope for the best, or ... flee like crazy!