INSAS

[dev]

Great stuff Jonah. But nice to read that the rifle though far from good isn't awful.

Dev

[cottage cheese]

Some of these from the first lot had Jap made barrels.Some were ok.

Good Grief! I missed this one out penpusher! Thanks for the info.

Well... it speaks volumes about the farcical state of affairs at IOFB... don't tell me they couldn't make decent 12 bore barrels for pumps? I mean, how state-of-art can that be?...never mind the fact that it was for initial lots... they actually had to import 12 bore barrels?

Man... IOF has gone even lower in my esteem now

And you're right with the carrying handle on the INSAS... it's a pointless cosmetic bling-bling that can be done away with... who know's the INSAS may get 10,000 bucks cheaper as a result !!

Nobody uses the carrying handle. Nobody used the one on the SLR as well... so it should be safe to knock off the assembly line.... unless some high 'kickback' sub-contractor has interest in retaining it..

[Mack The Knife]

Nice review Jonah and good input CC.

Ditto and thanks.

[jonahpach]

And you're right with the carrying handle on the INSAS... it's a pointless cosmetic bling-bling that can be done away with... who know's the INSAS may get 10,000 bucks cheaper as a result !!

Nobody uses the carrying handle. Nobody used the one on the SLR as well... so it should be safe to knock off the assembly line.... unless some high 'kickback' sub-contractor has interest in retaining it..

Actually it has one very convenient use.. To slip on those case catchers!

Jonah

[cottage cheese]

Actually it has one very convenient use.. To slip on those case catchers!

Haha!

That must have been the very purpose it was designed for, in the first place !!... the stingy babus must've balked at the wastage of spent brass and made it a requirement

... thank god the troops in the field are not required to lug the brass catcher along!

[jonahpach]

Speaking about brass, has anyone noticed most of the 5.56 ammo being used by the army that I have seen are not made of brass anymore they all have steel cases!

Jonah

[Mack The Knife]

Jonah, do you have a close-up pic of the round?

[jonahpach]

Jonah, do you have a close-up pic of the round?

Sorry not at the moment but might be able to hustleup one sometime this week

Jonah

[cottage cheese]

Speaking about brass, has anyone noticed most of the 5.56 ammo being used by the army that I have seen are not made of brass anymore they all have steel cases!

Jonah

Hey thats news.

Following the standard soviet practice I suppose. Steel casing could prove to be cheaper than brass. Must be doing every thing possible to keep the costs down but still not able.

Are the rounds laquered or plated? if not, it'd be painful keeping the casing from rusting!

Funny thing is the Indian made 5.56 and AK rounds till date appear to have a coppery appearance rather than brass.... never figured why.

[Rudranath]

Quality issues in and improper usage in the hands of poorly led and trained troops make a terrific combination.

Yes there was a problem with improper usage of the rifle by the RNA but regarding quality issues the Indian army finds the INSAS rifles more reliable than their international counterparts.


Indian Army finds INSAS rifles reliable

NEW DELHI, SEPTEMBER 6: Intensive tests on INSAS rifle, the Indian Army�s mainstay, have confirmed its "robustness and reliability" even in "intense operational scenarios."

The result of the tests, conducted at Mhow between August 18 and 20, would be communicated to Kathmandu, which had complained about the rifle's "unreliability" and blamed it for the reverses it suffered against the Maoists.

The Army's Infantry School in Mhow tested 44 INSAS rifles of the Platoon Weapons Division, simulating an "intense operational scenario". The rifles were put through alternative tests of short-burst firing and single-shot firing.

The report of the tests says the rate of fire and performance during high cyclic load was "acceptable".

A total of 12,237 rounds were fired. The total number of "stoppages" where rounds get jammed during continuous use was under one per cent, a vindication of the Army's stand, since the international norm for small arms is two per cent.

The report says out of 44 rifles, only 15 faced stoppages, and only three more than eight stoppages. Barring the three, the average stoppage was only 0.66 per cent, the report adds.

Apart from stoppages, the test team in Mhow, which included one JCO and four Havildar-rank instructors, encountered "no breakages or defects with the INSAS rifle", as claimed by the Royal Nepalese Army (RNA).

The RNA had complained that the INSAS it used broke down during fighting, which resulted in some of its men falling to the Maoist's bullets. The rifles were operated for 30 minutes at a stretch, simulating the scenario in which the RNA operates.

Army Chief Gen J J Singh had last month backed the rifle at the Infantry Commander's Conference in Mhow.

*************

Well INSAS is not a Army product but still they are backing it. If there was indeed a quality probem with the OFB product then the Indian army would not have the hesistated in throwing them back at OFB guys and asked them to get them corrected before inducting them in the IA just like the OFB made artillery guns were initially rejected on quality grounds before the OFB guys received enlightment at the hands of the top army brass and sorted out the quality issues.

[Rudranath]

Well forget to congratulate Jonah L Pachuau on a nice and balanced review of the INSAS.

Well a belated thanks for the review Mr.Jonah.

BTW did you get to handle the INSAS Carbine or have they been not inducted yet.

The INSAS carbine picture looks awesome like the Israeli Uzi.

**************************
Here is another view about the INSAS from a person whose cousin and father are in the services.
***************************
INSAS is pretty good as compared to the SLR.I got the chance to fire few test rounds in December visiting my cousin's unit.

Its lighter and easier to use.I have heard the jawans mention the accuracy issues when firing in burst mode,but is still better than the AK series in terms of accuracy.

Does'nt give you a sore shoulder like you would get firing SLR.

As a matter of fact when the INSAS was first rolled out to BSF in 2001-02,the BSF jawans in my Dad's unit found it awesome in urban combat as compare to the SLR.

They loved the transparent magzine,not every one realises the benefits of knowing the number of rounds left in your magzine unless you have been in that crunch situation..

I think its an awesome weapon to replace SLR atleast for COIN forces involved in close combat,especially in the valley.
********************************

[Rudranath]

Also Mr.Jonah did you try to fire the INSAS with one hand.

**********

New Modified INSAS rifes can be fired with one hand

Also on display were modified INSAS rifles, which not only provided greater mobility but also greater accuracy during night firing.

Captain Gautam who had modified the INSAS rifles said: "The rifle has a trigger mechanism which enables it to be fired with one hand without curtailing its effectiveness, even while talking on the radio or throwing a hand grenade. Also the lock mechanism for the magazine has been modified so that it can be operated with the single flick of the thumb".

And to make the firing more accurate during the night, the sight has been modified giving greater accuracy and greater effectiveness for night kills.

The sling has also been modified so that the rifle can be slung across the front keeping both arms free and at the back, along greater mobility during crawling or para-dropping operations.

[jonahpach]

And to make the firing more accurate during the night, the sight has been modified giving greater accuracy and greater effectiveness for night kills.

I dont see how an aperture sight can/could be modified to give any kind of accuracy at night.. unless its the night vision you are talking about. Personally for a military rifle I would prefer normal iron sights which allows one to take careful aim for that 'important' shot whilst at the same time shift to a more 'off hand' over the barrel aiming shot for straffing etc.. peeping through the aperture during actual combat would be very inconvenient.

Also Mr.Jonah did you try to fire the INSAS with one hand.

No I did not try to fire it with one hand! any shoulder rifle/weapon can be fired with one hand including the bren. But I doubt one can have any kind of accuracy with it unless if it is at point bank range.

Maybe I'll try out the Rambo one hand trick just for fun next time..

[Rudranath]

I dont see how an aperture sight can/could be modified to give any kind of accuracy at night.. unless its the night vision you are talking about. Personally for a military rifle I would prefer normal iron sights which allows one to take careful aim for that 'important' shot whilst at the same time shift to a more 'off hand' over the barrel aiming shot for straffing etc.. peeping through the aperture during actual combat would be very inconvenient.

He seems to talking about these Night Vision Devices from an Indian Company

Night Vision Devices
N / CROS
1)Compact Light Weight
2)Hand Held
3)Eye safe, LRF & Laser Pointing
4)AZ / Inclination / Elev. Measurements
5)Night Combat Ability
6)Super Gen I I Tubes
7)MILSTD - 810


MINI N / SEAS
1)Light Weight – 330 gms
2)Mono & Flip Off
3)Hand Held & Helmet Mounted
4)IR Illuminator
5)Night Combat Ability
6)Super Gen I I Tubes
7)MILSTD – 810

Nice NV Gadgets.

Maybe I'll try out the Rambo one hand trick just for fun next time..

Don't try the Rambo one hand trick Mr.Jonah. The Americans may want to you in exchange for the 123 nuclear deal.

Already the americans are facing a shortage of foot soldiers in Afghanistan.

What better way to boost american morale but by importing a Indian Rambo to show the Americans how to "singlehandely" fight "Mullah Radio" and "burqa clad talibans"

[Rudranath]

The choice of semi and 3round burst only proves the dominance of the babu in policy matters that are best left to the people who will actually use the hardware.

Even the M-16 has a 3 round burst mode.

M-16

1981. Colt developed a variation of the M16A1, adapted for the SS109/5.56mm NATO cartridge, and submitted it to the military trials as the M16A1E1. This rifle differed from the M16A1 by having the heavier barrel with faster 1:7 rifling, a different type rear sights (adjustable for both range and windage), round handguards instead of triangular ones, and by replacing the full-auto fire mode with the burst (limited to 3 rounds per trigger pull), to preserve the ammunition.


The Russian AN-94 Abakan has a 2 round burst mode.

AN-94 Abakan

The key improvement of the AN-94 over the AK-74 is the introduction of the 2-rounds burst mode, added to the standard single shots and full auto mode. The two rounds bursts are fired at very high rate of fire, and a trained shooter can make a single hole in the target at 100 meters in this mode. This allows for significant increase in lethality, stopping power and body armour penetration over the single shot mode, with the same "single shot" accuracy.


Yes the OFB babu is from the dino age and is the culprit most of time who messes the quality of the guns but when suitable enlightment is provided by the army guys even he can deliver some great goods.