meaning of calibre

[Grumpy]

Abhijeet, you were talking about `phantom` calibres....................................
LMAO !!!
It`s a shame that there isn`t an emoticon for hysterical laughter.

[penpusher]

THe S & W long cartridge has been purchased so many times by people with normal Browning type 8 mm firearm.
9 mm firearms too have a long list of sizes and chamberings and equally big confusions.

First a 9mm Bren gun and now a Browning type 8mm firearm.No wonder you survived the Maoist attack.They were shooting at you with firearms that do not exist.Maybe they were using blank guns because other than the Jap 8mm Nambu,the only other 8mm pistol that you can buy seem to be blank firing replica pistols.

Another confusion lies between 8 mm, .32 and 7.62 Automatic pistol cartridges.

Only in YOUR mind

[shahid]

THe S & W long cartridge has been purchased so many times by people with normal Browning type 8 mm firearm.
9 mm firearms too have a long list of sizes and chamberings and equally big confusions.

First a 9mm Bren gun and now a Browning type 8mm firearm.No wonder you survived the Maoist attack.They were shooting at you with firearms that do not exist.Maybe they were using blank guns because other than the Jap 8mm Nambu,the only other 8mm pistol that you can buy seem to be blank firing replica pistols.

Another confusion lies between 8 mm, .32 and 7.62 Automatic pistol cartridges.

Only in YOUR mind

I can only pity your mental condition and hope you become a bit sober. We don't sit here with catalouges and loading / ballastic charts, just type in a few lines from memory.

I do not know what calibre is a Bren gun for I have no experience except that it is a Brno Enfield collaboration. Maybe it is chambered for .303 or some other calibre.

As for sten gun, if you know what size 9 mm cartridge goes into it, who is the maker of the ones carried by the Indian police and other paramilitary forces ( if they have it ) post it here for the benefit of all IFG members rather than picking on personal issues. What benefit will all this bring to you ?

I do believe there are more than one Pistol cartridge sizes for 8 mm or .32 pistol as well. A 70 grain cartridge that we use in most Indian licenced .32 ACP pistols, similar to IOF made cartridges, there is definetely a 8 mm S & W long 100 grain cartridge, the 8 mm browning cartridge is also there, but I am not 100 % sure for I do not have an AP cartridge list handy, but in all probablitity it is the same as the normal .32 / 8 mm round that is common in India.

In 9mm there is 9 mm Luger, which I have in my pocket right now, and there are many other sizes / chamberings / types for civilian and in the Indian context non civilian govt. use.

If you do reserach a bit it would make interesting reading.

Grumpy dear - The ghost calibre .303 you are cynical about, well we found out that the .303 sporting or .303 british round called by some authors is rimmed, a 150 to 180 grain round and there is a different .303 Jeffery round, all of 22o grains, pic of which we posted from the Kynoch catalouge. THis is also rimmed. Double rifles have also been produced in this calibre. The bullet design of the sporting round being different, it can be fired in service rifles as well I reckon.

If you wish to contribute shooting sports knowledge then do so, do not pick on people, its of no benefit.

As for the naxal insurgents, come and face them. You will wet your trousers I am sure.

[Khan_Imran]

Hi,
177 calibre is mostly used in air guns. Its excellent for target contests. I usually use it for small game. .22 calibre is 2200 in diameter of an inch.
In weapons, the caliber is the diameter of the inside of the barrel

[snIPer]

Imran, what type of small game have you managed to bag with the .177?
I hope rabbits were one of them

[penpusher]

Shahid,how do you manage to come up with this crap????

[Grumpy]

Shahid, Kynoch do not list a `.303 Jeffery`, they list only the `.303 British` loaded with a 215 gr bullet.
The .303 Enfield ( usually known nowadays as the `.303 British` ) was initially loaded with a 215 gr bullet until the introduction of the Mark 7 cartridge in 1910 which used a 174 gr bullet.
Commercial loadings ( such as the Kynoch ) are - and were - available in various different bullet weights, just as various bullet weights are available in most calibres. Prvi Partizan for example, load the .303 British with 150, 174 and 180 gr bullets. Federal offer the .303 British with 150 and 180 gr bullets. It`s quite possible that the .303 British has been offered with a 220 gr bullet - but so what ? It`s just a different bullet weight - NOT a different cartridge.

The only other `.303` is the American .303 Savage.

The term `Sporting` just indicates that a cartridge has been loaded with a hunting bullet rather than a military specification bullet - target use is also considered `Sporting`. There is a huge list of former ( and current ) military calibres that are commonly used for `sporting` purposes - eg, the 5.56/.223, 6.5x54, 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, 7.62/.308 Win, .303 British, 30-06 and so on and so on and so on. The list is very long and the range of bullet weights offered is enormous - especially for the 30-06.

The `6.6x57` is another of your phantoms. There is the 6.5x57 Mauser ( and the 6.5x57R ) but not a 6.6mm.

I`m not arguing with your comment that the various 7.62 ( 7.63, 7.65 ) pistol cartridges might be confused with .32 calibre ammunition.......The point being that only dimwits might make such mistakes. Some of those cartridges WILL chamber in guns chambered for another calibre - most won`t as it happens. The mention of 8mm cartridges is a bit of a `red herring` since none are commercially ( or militarily ) loaded nowadays and all ( the 8mm Roth Steyr M1907, the Rast & Gasser M1898, the Lebel M1892 and the 8mm Nambu ) are considered obsolete.

[penpusher]

So there were other 8mm pistol cartridges besides the 8mm Nambu.No 8mm Browning though.

Grumpy,

Was the 7.7mm Jap round basically a rimless 303 cartridge?It did use the same dia bullet but were the case dimensions also the same?

[Grumpy]

There IS an `8mm Browning`...... so-called but it`s actually a .30 cal machine gun ( NOT sub-machine gun ) round. There`s no chance of mistaking it for a 7.62 or .32 handgun cartridge though as it is enormous in comparison. Not a chance in hell of chambering it in a pistol.

The 7.7mm ( 7.7x58 ) Japanese shares the same bullet diameter as the .303 British ( .311"/.312" but that`s all. It is a rimless cartridge ( the .303 British case is rimmed as you know ) that is fractionally longer than the .303 ( 2.27" as opposed to 2.22".) The shoulder angle is different - 25.5 degrees ( I think ) ( the .303 is 16-16.6 degrees ) and the case base diameter is larger - .470". The .303 is .455 -.460 above the rim.
The 7.7 Jap is a good cartridge and commercially loaded by a few sources - Norma offer it with a 174 gr bullet.
The Arisaka rifle was pretty good as well.
No commercial sporting rifle has ever been chambered for the 7.7 Jap by the way.
I reckon that a 7.7 Jap `Improved` ( as per P.O.Ackley specs ) cartridge with a 40 degree shoulder angle would be a very nice cartridge......unfortunately it`s never been done.

[penpusher]

Thanks a lot Grumpy.

Me thinks Indian Rambo can shoot the 8mm Browning machinegun from the hip.So 'Hand'+ 'Gun' which can also be a pistol.Indian Rambo laughs in the face of 100's or was it 1000's of bullets and dozens of RPG's being fired at him by comic book cross eyed terrorist types from 8mm Browning type pistols and 9mm Bren guns and Leo toys Launchers.He then fires back with his trusty 12 ga double barrel that metamorphosis's into a .30 machinegun(8mm Browning).After a heavy exchange of fire in which no one dies,all the 'cross eyed terrorist types' jump up and down in a victory dance and go back to their camps while our hero catches the next flight to the deserts of Arabia,while we wet our pants.The hero will now share his views in his own indomitable, unique and offensive style.Please wait.

[Grumpy]

Shut up Sukhpret - I can`t handle this much laughter !
( That `Hysterical Laughter` emoticon is desperately needed ! )

Presumably it`s the ubcontrollable giggling that causes us to `wet our pants` ?

I look forward to the next instalment with eager anticipation.

By the way, I presume those 8mm Browning machine pistols are made by BSA ?

[penpusher]

By the way, I presume those 8mm Browning machine pistols are made by BSA?

No.Nothing but the best will do for our hero.So,sold under the 'Army and Navy' name but made by Purdey,engraved for free by Holland and Holland and then tin plated.The cartridges are loaded by Kynoch off course.

[dev]

By the way, I presume those 8mm Browning machine pistols are made by BSA?

No.Nothing but the best will do for our hero.So,sold under the 'Army and Navy' name but made by Purdey,engraved for free by Holland and Holland and then tin plated.The cartridges are loaded by Kynoch off course.

mmmpfff and they call me a wordsmith? Hats off to you sire.

[Grumpy]

Yeah, we`re baaaad.

[Khan_Imran]

Hi Sniper,

I've hunted Sparrows with a .177. It's quite of a challenge to do that as you've really got be be a marksman to bring it down due to its small size and speed.