455 Webley in 45 LC

[mashh1]

is it possible and of course safe to chamber and fire 455 webley in 45 LC revolver.
regards

[cottage cheese]

is it possible and of course safe to chamber and fire 455 webley in 45 LC revolver.
regards

Ask Grumpy

Apparently the .45LC cartridge as a thicker rim than the .455

Chambering may be possible 45 to 455, and vice versa but I'm told the either the rims of the LC cartridge get trimmed or the rim seat on the Webley deepened.

...in the mean time this list might help:
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm

Scroll down

[mashh1]

it is time to consult real guru
Grumpy would you please give ur expert opinion on the matter.
regards

[Grumpy]

Blimey.....that`s an unusual question........just about 100% the reverse of the usual situation.

Will a revolver chambered for the .45 Long Colt chamber .455 Webley ammo ?
Yes.

Is it safe to do so ?
Possibly.... maybe even probably. The energies and pressures developed are quite similar. The problem is that the .45 LC has a thicker rim than the .455 Webley which might cause ignition problems as the cartridge moves forward under physical pressure from the firing pin or, if pushed fully forward when loaded, because of an insufficient strike on the primer.
The cases will inevitable set back upon being fired which will impart some extra stress on the frame - and the crane believe it or not - ..... not to mention that opening the cylinder might be distinctly tight with half a dozen cases jammed against the recoil plate.
There is also the risk of splitting cases immediately in front of the rim. I had that happen to me once with a .22 lr - I was deaf as a post for a couple of hours and had chronic tinitus for days !

Is it a good idea to use .455 Webley cartridges in a revolver chambered for the .45 LC ? Considering all the above, the answer has to be `definitely not` !

One other thing concerns me: What precisely is this revolver chambered for the .45 LC ? Please inspect ALL the markings and pass on the details - it would be terrible to cause damage to a valuable revolver..........and there are some VERY valuable revolvers chambered for the .45 LC.

[Mark]

It looks like the rounds are too fat:


I stand corrected, I found this chart:

http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm

And it actually looks like a 455 will fit into a Colt 45 chamber.

However, I do not think it would be a good idea unless one is rather desperate. The bullet is quite a bit shorter and there is a bit of clearance, I think one might run the risk of splitting the cases at the minimum.

[penpusher]

There go my chances of getting a .45 colt revolver

[mashh1]

thanks all especially, gurus grumpy & mark and thanks cc for the nice link and direction.
the gun in question is a colt saa from an estate sale. very unusual as it is not a gun which surfaces from time to time. i have bought the gun but still not get it due to legal work involved. the gunshop who had them claim it is a 455 but my gunsmith who went there and saw it says it is 45 lC. and bcoz ammo for 455 is available i was thinking of using that ammo. i will post pictures and detail as soon as i get.
thanks & regards

[Grumpy]

Mashh1, I had a strange premonition that the revolver involved might be a SAA - DON`T even consider using .455 Webley ammunition in it. If designed for black powder loads using nitro .455 ammunition could cause terminal damage......to both revolver and shooter !

Mark, what do you know about SAAs ?

The .45 Long Colt and .455 Webley do appear to be very dis-similar but a gun chambered for either WILL chamber the other. The usual situation was that WWI vintage Colt .455 New Service or S&W Hand Ejectors that had been returned to the USA were used with .45 LC ammunition and the chamber rims deepened a little to accomodate the deeper rim. In other locations ( Canada used to be favourite ) similar pistols in .45LC had the chamber end of the cylinders ground down and the barrel set back to accomodate the .455. Either way, the value of such a piece is ruined.

penpusher, how were you planning on going about importing a mangled SAA from Pakistan ?
- There`s not a lot that can be done with revolvers that have suffered a `stretched` frame by the way.

[mashh1]

grumpy your hunch was right on money regarding SAA. i will not use the gun untill we get pretty sure about the calibre. i have not seen it yet but what i am told it is not mangled yet.
penpusher your chances get pretty slimmer i think regarding this 45 .
regards

[Grumpy]

Mashh1, I`m really looking forward to seeing this SAA.......Could be a very special gun ...... although there are a lot of factors that have to be taken into account.

[penpusher]

I was talking about "a" revolver in 45LC and not this particular revolver.The fact that a revolver in 45LC can chamber a .455 Webley cartridge means that it would be considered a PB firearm. I 'think' I have clarified the misunderstanding

[Grumpy]

Ah.........yes, with you now.
I don`t think that you`ld have much problem in proving the legitimacy of the .45 Long Colt - The .45 LC and .455 Webley are dimensionally similar in some respects but, as can be seen from the picture and associated sizes, they are quite different otherwise.
If `chambering` was the only criteria as to what is or isn`t `PB` then you`ld end up with hardly any permissable calibres - you might be surprised at how many calibres were developed from earlier ones. In many cases using one of the alternatives might be extremely dangerous but the cartridge could still be `chambered`....... in others, the bullet would whizz down the barrel without touching the sides but the case would still be `chambered`. Seating the bullet is another matter entirely.
What is the actual wording in used determining whether a cartrudge is prohibited or not ?

[penpusher]

If it can 'chamber and fire' a PB cartridge ,the firearm is prohibited

[shutzen]

If it can 'chamber and fire' a PB cartridge ,the firearm is prohibited

HI! I dont think so 2 rifle cals come to mind immidiately

1. .308 win :- will chamber and fire 7.62 mm nato round without a problem : In fact the nato round is slightly less powerfull than the civilian version.

2. .223 rem : will chamber and fire 5.56 nato : Here the nato round is more powerful (generates higher chamber pressure) so do check with the manufacturer before you go Kaboom though

[mundaire]

HI! I dont think so 2 rifle cals come to mind immidiately

1. .308 win :- will chamber and fire 7.62 mm nato round without a problem : In fact the nato round is slightly less powerfull than the civilian version.

2. .223 rem : will chamber and fire 5.56 nato : Here the nato round is more powerful (generates higher chamber pressure) so do check with the manufacturer before you go Kaboom though

penpusher is right, please see - the Arms Rules, 1962 - Schedule I - categories I(b) and I(c).

Also refer to the Arms Act 1959 - Section 2 - Sec. 2(1) (i) and Sec. 2(1) (h) - These refer to Prohibited arms and ammunition BUT NOT prohibited bores which are have been explicitly defined under Schedule I of the Arms Rules as mentioned above.

As to your mention of the above two calibres, well the only reason they are entered as NPB on licenses is due to the ignorance of "babus" - otherwise they most certainly meet the definition of PB as defined by the Arms Rules 1962...

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet