.38 colt from my great grandfather

[nid15]

Hi,

My father has a licensed. 38 colt from the time of my great grandfather who was a cop. My father is a doctor and he has been told the gujarat license cannot be moved to his son's because it is a restricted bore.
What options do we have? Someone told him he can write to home ministry?? I live in the US where gun ownership is relatively easy. Is there a way for him to transfer to me?

Thanks!

[Shadmohammed]

. 38 smith and wesson exactly speaking. 38/200 is resticted bore not. 38 colt.

[Vineet]

Hi,

My father has a licensed. 38 colt from the time of my great grandfather who was a cop. My father is a doctor and he has been told the gujarat license cannot be moved to his son's because it is a restricted bore.
What options do we have? Someone told him he can write to home ministry?? I live in the US where gun ownership is relatively easy. Is there a way for him to transfer to me?

Thanks!

You can get ‘Restricted bore’ license on the basis of inheritance category but the process is long and difficult one.

[hornet22]

Hi,

My father has a licensed. 38 colt from the time of my great grandfather who was a cop. My father is a doctor and he has been told the gujarat license cannot be moved to his son's because it is a restricted bore.
What options do we have? Someone told him he can write to home ministry?? I live in the US where gun ownership is relatively easy. Is there a way for him to transfer to me?

Thanks!

You can get ‘Restricted bore’ license on the basis of inheritance category but the process is long and difficult one.

Even if you manage to get the licence ....getting ammunition for the gun would be very difficult not to mention very expensive.

[gurbir22]

Hi,

My father has a licensed. 38 colt from the time of my great grandfather who was a cop. My father is a doctor and he has been told the gujarat license cannot be moved to his son's because it is a restricted bore.
What options do we have? Someone told him he can write to home ministry?? I live in the US where gun ownership is relatively easy. Is there a way for him to transfer to me?

Thanks!

Hi,
You can get it converted to NPB by a good gunsmith who has a license to convert or alter the caliber of a weapon from PB to NPB

Regards
Gurbir

[timmy]

BAck in the 50s, many war surplus British 38/200 revolvers were brought into the USA and sold cheaply as surplus weapons. Often, these were imported by large surplus weapons companies.

The problems with this conversion:

1. Both the case and the bullet of 38/200 are about 0.004" larger in diameter.

2. The case of 38/200 is 0.775" long. The case of 38 Special is 1.155" long.

There is a step in each chamber that is at the depth proper for the shorter 38/200 cartridge. This step is too shallow for the longer 38 Special cartridge and the chamber would need to be bored deeper to accept the longer 38 special cartridge. Because 38/200 is slightly larger in diameter, 38 Special cartridges would bulge when fired in these chambers. How severe this would be depends on the tolerances of the gun's chambers. Some report bulging and some report splitting.

Could one sleeve and rebore the chambers? This would be quite expensive, if it worked. There isn't very much metal in the cylinder walls to permit this. One could obtain a 38 Special cylinder and have it fitted. This would be tricky because you'd need to find someone who is skilled at working with the old Colt Schmidt-Galand lockwork in order to time the revolver correctly. Very few people nowadays work with old Colts, so it is critical when buying an old one to make sure it is in time to begin with, as finding someone to correct a timing issue is not easy and is certainly expensive.

The bullet, as well as the land and groove diameter of 38/200 is a bit larger than 38 Special, so depending on the gun, accuracy isn't going to be as good.

Chamber pressure for 38/200 is less than 38 Special. So, a properly done conversion will require the gun to be reproofed and remarked for the new cartridge. This starts getting to the nub of the issue here. The gun has to be legally declared a NPB gun, so it will have to be marked as such. It would have to be converted and proofed for 38 Special for this to happen. (This assumes that your local officials are familiar enough with such things to accept it -- perhaps another issue.) Would a gunsmith have access to proof testing? I don't know the answer to this question -- it would be for you to answer.

It is easy to wave one's hands and say, "take it to a gunsmith," but as you see, there's more to it than waving a hand or a magic wand. One can see, at each step I've described, money flying out of your pocket. A good gunsmith's work is never cheap. No doubt some joker could cobble up a jugaad, but you still have to get the gun approved in the end, not to mention the safety of the work. You must, in other words, do this legally if you do it.

You have not said whether you want to keep the gun for shooting or for the value of it having been in your family. If the gun has sentimental value to you, I would suggest keeping it untouched and going for the course of action Vineet described.

[Vikram]

BAck in the 50s, many war surplus British 38/200 revolvers were brought into the USA and sold cheaply as surplus weapons. Often, these were imported by large surplus weapons companies.

The problems with this conversion:

1. Both the case and the bullet of 38/200 are about 0.004" larger in diameter.

2. The case of 38/200 is 0.775" long. The case of 38 Special is 1.155" long.

There is a step in each chamber that is at the depth proper for the shorter 38/200 cartridge. This step is too shallow for the longer 38 Special cartridge and the chamber would need to be bored deeper to accept the longer 38 special cartridge. Because 38/200 is slightly larger in diameter, 38 Special cartridges would bulge when fired in these chambers. How severe this would be depends on the tolerances of the gun's chambers. Some report bulging and some report splitting.

Could one sleeve and rebore the chambers? This would be quite expensive, if it worked. There isn't very much metal in the cylinder walls to permit this. One could obtain a 38 Special cylinder and have it fitted. This would be tricky because you'd need to find someone who is skilled at working with the old Colt Schmidt-Galand lockwork in order to time the revolver correctly. Very few people nowadays work with old Colts, so it is critical when buying an old one to make sure it is in time to begin with, as finding someone to correct a timing issue is not easy and is certainly expensive.

The bullet, as well as the land and groove diameter of 38/200 is a bit larger than 38 Special, so depending on the gun, accuracy isn't going to be as good.

Chamber pressure for 38/200 is less than 38 Special. So, a properly done conversion will require the gun to be reproofed and remarked for the new cartridge. This starts getting to the nub of the issue here. The gun has to be legally declared a NPB gun, so it will have to be marked as such. It would have to be converted and proofed for 38 Special for this to happen. (This assumes that your local officials are familiar enough with such things to accept it -- perhaps another issue.) Would a gunsmith have access to proof testing? I don't know the answer to this question -- it would be for you to answer.

It is easy to wave one's hands and say, "take it to a gunsmith," but as you see, there's more to it than waving a hand or a magic wand. One can see, at each step I've described, money flying out of your pocket. A good gunsmith's work is never cheap. No doubt some joker could cobble up a jugaad, but you still have to get the gun approved in the end, not to mention the safety of the work. You must, in other words, do this legally if you do it.

You have not said whether you want to keep the gun for shooting or for the value of it having been in your family. If the gun has sentimental value to you, I would suggest keeping it untouched and going for the course of action Vineet described.

Tim,

Educational as ever. Thank you for explaining the various considerations in undertaking a project like this.

[GVS]

BAck in the 50s, many war surplus British 38/200 revolvers were brought into the USA and sold cheaply as surplus weapons. Often, these were imported by large surplus weapons companies.

The problems with this conversion:

1. Both the case and the bullet of 38/200 are about 0.004" larger in diameter.

2. The case of 38/200 is 0.775" long. The case of 38 Special is 1.155" long.

There is a step in each chamber that is at the depth proper for the shorter 38/200 cartridge. This step is too shallow for the longer 38 Special cartridge and the chamber would need to be bored deeper to accept the longer 38 special cartridge. Because 38/200 is slightly larger in diameter, 38 Special cartridges would bulge when fired in these chambers. How severe this would be depends on the tolerances of the gun's chambers. Some report bulging and some report splitting.

Could one sleeve and rebore the chambers? This would be quite expensive, if it worked. There isn't very much metal in the cylinder walls to permit this. One could obtain a 38 Special cylinder and have it fitted. This would be tricky because you'd need to find someone who is skilled at working with the old Colt Schmidt-Galand lockwork in order to time the revolver correctly. Very few people nowadays work with old Colts, so it is critical when buying an old one to make sure it is in time to begin with, as finding someone to correct a timing issue is not easy and is certainly expensive.

The bullet, as well as the land and groove diameter of 38/200 is a bit larger than 38 Special, so depending on the gun, accuracy isn't going to be as good.

Chamber pressure for 38/200 is less than 38 Special. So, a properly done conversion will require the gun to be reproofed and remarked for the new cartridge. This starts getting to the nub of the issue here. The gun has to be legally declared a NPB gun, so it will have to be marked as such. It would have to be converted and proofed for 38 Special for this to happen. (This assumes that your local officials are familiar enough with such things to accept it -- perhaps another issue.) Would a gunsmith have access to proof testing? I don't know the answer to this question -- it would be for you to answer.

It is easy to wave one's hands and say, "take it to a gunsmith," but as you see, there's more to it than waving a hand or a magic wand. One can see, at each step I've described, money flying out of your pocket. A good gunsmith's work is never cheap. No doubt some joker could cobble up a jugaad, but you still have to get the gun approved in the end, not to mention the safety of the work. You must, in other words, do this legally if you do it.

You have not said whether you want to keep the gun for shooting or for the value of it having been in your family. If the gun has sentimental value to you, I would suggest keeping it untouched and going for the course of action Vineet described.

Thanks Tim.

Your post is very informative and insightful. You hit the nail on the head with the re proofing. I don't think local gunsmiths here have access to nor authorization to modify weapons and have them proofed.

[gurbir22]

BAck in the 50s, many war surplus British 38/200 revolvers were brought into the USA and sold cheaply as surplus weapons. Often, these were imported by large surplus weapons companies.

The problems with this conversion:

1. Both the case and the bullet of 38/200 are about 0.004" larger in diameter.

2. The case of 38/200 is 0.775" long. The case of 38 Special is 1.155" long.

There is a step in each chamber that is at the depth proper for the shorter 38/200 cartridge. This step is too shallow for the longer 38 Special cartridge and the chamber would need to be bored deeper to accept the longer 38 special cartridge. Because 38/200 is slightly larger in diameter, 38 Special cartridges would bulge when fired in these chambers. How severe this would be depends on the tolerances of the gun's chambers. Some report bulging and some report splitting.

Could one sleeve and rebore the chambers? This would be quite expensive, if it worked. There isn't very much metal in the cylinder walls to permit this. One could obtain a 38 Special cylinder and have it fitted. This would be tricky because you'd need to find someone who is skilled at working with the old Colt Schmidt-Galand lockwork in order to time the revolver correctly. Very few people nowadays work with old Colts, so it is critical when buying an old one to make sure it is in time to begin with, as finding someone to correct a timing issue is not easy and is certainly expensive.

The bullet, as well as the land and groove diameter of 38/200 is a bit larger than 38 Special, so depending on the gun, accuracy isn't going to be as good.

Chamber pressure for 38/200 is less than 38 Special. So, a properly done conversion will require the gun to be reproofed and remarked for the new cartridge. This starts getting to the nub of the issue here. The gun has to be legally declared a NPB gun, so it will have to be marked as such. It would have to be converted and proofed for 38 Special for this to happen. (This assumes that your local officials are familiar enough with such things to accept it -- perhaps another issue.) Would a gunsmith have access to proof testing? I don't know the answer to this question -- it would be for you to answer.

It is easy to wave one's hands and say, "take it to a gunsmith," but as you see, there's more to it than waving a hand or a magic wand. One can see, at each step I've described, money flying out of your pocket. A good gunsmith's work is never cheap. No doubt some joker could cobble up a jugaad, but you still have to get the gun approved in the end, not to mention the safety of the work. You must, in other words, do this legally if you do it.

You have not said whether you want to keep the gun for shooting or for the value of it having been in your family. If the gun has sentimental value to you, I would suggest keeping it untouched and going for the course of action Vineet described.

Hi, Timmy

Thank you for posting such an informative post, i highly appreciate your knowledge regarding conversion of 38 Colt revolver

Yes you are correct it’s a bit difficult to to work on a Colt revolver than a Smith and Wesson revolver

I talked to the Gunsmith who has done these kind of conversions as he has a license to carry out these kind of conversions legally, he told me that he has done conversions on a few smith and wessons i.e change of calibre from .38 smith and wesson to .38 smith and wesson special by completely making a new cylinder technically and legally along with all the paperwork and proof certification

Yes it is costly, and subject to approval by your local licensing authorities as the permission is necessary before carrying out the conversion, rest it all depends on the owner of the weapon.

Regards
Gurbir

[timmy]

So what happens when the authorities find that they can drop a 38/200 into the chamber?

[gurbir22]

So what happens when the authorities find that they can drop a 38/200 into the chamber?

Sorry I didn’t get your point ?

[Baljit]

BAck in the 50s, many war surplus British 38/200 revolvers were brought into the USA and sold cheaply as surplus weapons. Often, these were imported by large surplus weapons companies.

The problems with this conversion:

1. Both the case and the bullet of 38/200 are about 0.004" larger in diameter.

2. The case of 38/200 is 0.775" long. The case of 38 Special is 1.155" long.

There is a step in each chamber that is at the depth proper for the shorter 38/200 cartridge. This step is too shallow for the longer 38 Special cartridge and the chamber would need to be bored deeper to accept the longer 38 special cartridge. Because 38/200 is slightly larger in diameter, 38 Special cartridges would bulge when fired in these chambers. How severe this would be depends on the tolerances of the gun's chambers. Some report bulging and some report splitting.

Could one sleeve and rebore the chambers? This would be quite expensive, if it worked. There isn't very much metal in the cylinder walls to permit this. One could obtain a 38 Special cylinder and have it fitted. This would be tricky because you'd need to find someone who is skilled at working with the old Colt Schmidt-Galand lockwork in order to time the revolver correctly. Very few people nowadays work with old Colts, so it is critical when buying an old one to make sure it is in time to begin with, as finding someone to correct a timing issue is not easy and is certainly expensive.

The bullet, as well as the land and groove diameter of 38/200 is a bit larger than 38 Special, so depending on the gun, accuracy isn't going to be as good.

Chamber pressure for 38/200 is less than 38 Special. So, a properly done conversion will require the gun to be reproofed and remarked for the new cartridge. This starts getting to the nub of the issue here. The gun has to be legally declared a NPB gun, so it will have to be marked as such. It would have to be converted and proofed for 38 Special for this to happen. (This assumes that your local officials are familiar enough with such things to accept it -- perhaps another issue.) Would a gunsmith have access to proof testing? I don't know the answer to this question -- it would be for you to answer.

It is easy to wave one's hands and say, "take it to a gunsmith," but as you see, there's more to it than waving a hand or a magic wand. One can see, at each step I've described, money flying out of your pocket. A good gunsmith's work is never cheap. No doubt some joker could cobble up a jugaad, but you still have to get the gun approved in the end, not to mention the safety of the work. You must, in other words, do this legally if you do it.

You have not said whether you want to keep the gun for shooting or for the value of it having been in your family. If the gun has sentimental value to you, I would suggest keeping it untouched and going for the course of action Vineet described.

Timmy, This is what you're talking about? Webbely 38/200 War finished

IMG_3527.JPG

Thank you
Baljit

[Baljit]

You can not use 38Sepl. into the 38S&W chamber because the 38Sepl case is thinner and longer then 38S&W.


Thanks
Bal

[timmy]

Baljit, no, this isn't what I was speaking of.

Back in WW2, the British contracted with Smith & Wesson and Colt to manufacture revolvers for 38/200 (also called 380 revolver) to make up for their own service stock shortfalls of revolvers. I believe that Smith & Wesson made about 5 lakhs of their "M & P" model, later the Model 10, in 38/200 and Colt produced about 50,000 of their "Official Police" model in 38/200. These revolvers were on the surplus market at very cheap prices for many years, because nobody wanted them.

The 38/200 cartridge was nothing more than the 38 S&W loaded with a heavy 200 grain bullet. Because of its slightly smaller diameter and the lack of 38 S&W ammunition, some would try to load the then-common 38 Special into these surplus S&Ws and Colts, but they would not enter fully. There were ridges in the cylinder chambers appropriate for the 38 S&W cartridge, far to shallow for the longer 38 Special. Different means, crude and proper, were used to bore out these ridges and allow the 38 Special to chamber in these surplus, inexpensive revolvers.

One problem that developed was that the slightly smaller diameter 38 Special cartridge cases would often split on firing.

Another was that the throat of the chambers -- the section ahead of the ridge, was larger than the38 Special's bullet by several thousands of an inch. One of the most critical dimensions of a revolver is the the throat diameter of the chamber, which should be no larger than the bullet diameter. If it was not, the bullet would often get slightly sideways passing through the throat and not enter the barrel squarely. This affect the accuracy of the gun.

A third problem was the barrel diameter. Since, again, the 38 S&W was slightly larger than the 38 Special's bullet, those bullets were a loose fit in the barrel, a sure recipe for barrel leading and inaccuracy.

The poster calls his revolver a "38 Colt." Just what is this gun? For example, Colt made revolvers that would shoot 38 S&W, but they had their own version that used a bullet that was more blunt and flat ended. (It had a wide "meplat" we would say.) Colt called this cartridge "38 Colt New Police," and it's said that the police did like the round because the wide meplat made a larger wound channel, but the real bottom line was that Colt didn't want to put "38 S&W" on their barrels. They wanted them to say "Colt," and came up with this workaround.

The same thing also exists with Colt Pistols in "32 Colt New Police." Those cartridges are nothing more than the 23 S&W Long with a different bullet, as well.

So, with regard to the OP's question, we don't really know what he has: a surplus war revolver chambered in 38/200 or an old Colt chambered in 38 Colt New Police. Or, maybe something else altogether.

But the issue still remains that any revolver originally chambered for a 38 bullet of 0.361" or so diameter will have throats and barrel too large to work properly with a 38 Special cartridge. The gun won't be proofed for a higher pressure 38 Special cartridge.

I suppose one could find a barrel and cylinder for 38 Special and have it fitted, but finding this in India and finding someone to install the barrel correctly (did you know that there is a special procedure for fitting barrels on Colt revolvers? Does the person know that the gunsmith knows this and does it properly? Hmmm, I say.) but finding and fitting the proper parts would be expensive. It would probably be cheaper to find another gun.

But, if the 38 S&# - 38/200 chambers are bored and the OP accepts poorer accuracy, some split cases, and some leading of the barrel, what happens when the policeman can drop a 38/200 cartridge into the chamber? Who fixes that, and how?

Leave the gun alone and appreciate it for what it is: a family heirloom -- that's what I say.

[Ruari]

As the Op lives in the USA, why would he need to have the pistol altered?
.38 S&W is available and he could reload anyway.