Nice USGI Ithaca

[mashh1]

although it is PB on ur side but i think some very nice examples still on ur side of pond. on another forum this thread shows a very nice USGI ithaca very recently acquired by the original poster.
Ithaca from India

[firearm]

Hi,
Is it a PB? I heard that in Mumbai you can buy a .45 as NP bore. Actually I am looking for a .45. But yes in other parts of Maharashtra as I was told that this is a Prohibited Bore. can anyone throw some light on it ? What would be the approx price of a .45 Colt or Ithaca?

Firearm

[amk]

That is my gun

It is NPB here in Mumbai. An Ithaca in immaculate condition like mine should fetch around 3 lacs or more. Colts will be a little more expensive. There are a few for sale in the local market here. But you can probably get them cheaper in Nagpur.

Mind you, they are not easy to carry concealed; really heavy and big but they're really good fun to fire. Ammo is expensive though, the cheapest I could procure was for Rs. 110/- per round; MFS (Hungarian).

AMK

[mundaire]

It is NPB here in Mumbai. An Ithaca in immaculate condition like mine should fetch around 3 lacs or more. Colts will be a little more expensive. There are a few for sale in the local market here. But you can probably get them cheaper in Nagpur.

.45 ACP is PB all over India... the NPB/ PB classification is based on the Indian Arms Act/ Arms Rules and applies equally to all states/ union territories in the Union. Please see http://indiansforguns.com/kb.php?mode=article&k=13 AND http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=2780 for more on this subject.

Ammo is expensive though, the cheapest I could procure was for Rs. 110/- per round; MFS (Hungarian).

Picked up a fresh lot of 2006 manufacture S&B (in Delhi) for a similar price... but if one considers the prices of imported .32 ACP ammo, this price seems like a bargain in comparison!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[amk]

A reputable officer well versed with the arms act has told me .45 is NPB. Any rimless cartridge is NPB except the well defined rimless ones. I'm not well versed with the act and rules but if the authorities are saying it is NPB I ain't complaining

AMK

[Risala]

Outside of Mumbai it is a PB,suggest dont take to many chances unless you have an All India Lic.

Sanjay

[mundaire]

A reputable officer well versed with the arms act has told me .45 is NPB. Any rimless cartridge is NPB except the well defined rimless ones. I'm not well versed with the act and rules but if the authorities are saying it is NPB I ain't complaining

AMK

IIRC someone here had mentioned that Mumbai authorities had written to the MHA asking for clarification whether or not the .45 ACP was to be classified as PB or NPB. While awaiting their response, .45 ACP was being endorsed on NPB licenses... the poster mentioned that the MHA response was to tell them that .45 ACP was indeed a PB calibre... However, this is just hearsay...

There are also many cases that one hears of, wherein licensing authorities in certain pockets of India are endorsing guns chambered for 9mm para, 7.62 (NATO), .303 British etc. on NPB licenses...

Allow me to also clarify here, if a licensing authority out of ignorance OR negligence wrongfully endorses a gun on a license... both the licensee and the licensing authority could be called to book... in the eyes of any court, ignorance of the law is never a valid excuse...

Irrespective of how/ why/ where - the law is the same all over the country and like Sanjay I would advise caution. If for any reason your file is sent to the MHA - for example for an "ALL INDIA" endorsement, you are (at the very least) likely to have the license cancelled and the gun confiscated...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[amk]

Well we'll just have to see if I get my All India endorsement with my .45; whenever I apply. The officer who I referred to said .45 is legally acceptable according to the arms act and rules and whoever says it is a PB is wrong.

AMK

[Olly]

Wish you best of luck... and hope you don't end up losing your license / gun at any time. Surely .45 is a PB gun to my knowledge too...

[amk]

Even if they decide it is PB; I won't lose my license; only the gun. Well that's at least what I hope. Am I correct?

AMK

[penpusher]

The officer who I referred to said .45 is legally acceptable according to the arms act and rules and whoever says it is a PB is wrong.

This fellow obviously has never read the relevant sections of the Arms Rules.Tell him to read Rule 3 and Schedule I of the Arms Rules 1962.A pistol that fires service .45 rimless cartridge(read .45 ACP that is used in Thompson a.k.a Tommy gun machine guns that are still with some police dept.MP Police being one.)and .45 rimless ammo comes in category I (c).License for this can only be issued by the central MOH.IOF has also produced .45 ACP ammo in the past for sale to MOH and state police dept.'s.

[amk]

Sorry for the ignorance, I am trying to learn. Where in Schedule I does it say that .45 rimless (ACP) is prohibited?

AMK

[penpusher]

As I said in an earlier post,the term Prohibited bore is a misnomer used more for convenience than anything else.Ther e is no bore that is prohibited.

The licensing authority for a .45 pistol however remains Ministry of Home,Government of India.For that look at Rule 4 and Schedule II of the Arms Rules ,1962.

This has been the position since 1991.Even before that a DM could not issue a license for a .45 pistol as this power had been withdrawn and vested with the State Home Ministries by a notification of the Central Govt in the 1980's.So no local licensing authority has had the power to issue a license for a .45 pistol since 1984 or there abouts(give or take a couple of years).

For the specific year's ,you will have to check with the local licensing authority.They should have a copy of all the notifications issued by the MOH or you could get this information from the MOH itself.There is a specific clarification of the MOH that clearly states that a .45ACP pistol is a category 1(c) firearm ,license for which can only be issued by their office alone.

[amk]

So all the commissioners and deputy commissioners in Mumbai are breaking the law then since so many years?

Having said that, many cops who see the gun are surprised too that .45 is being allowed these days; and the arms dealers too say that it is not correct and someday the 45 will be banned.

Could it be that the tommy gun is no more in use in Maharashtra or Mumbai or it has been made officially defunct for all LEA categories in India?

Sorry to say this but this PB biz is really confusing for the layman. Unless one has access to all notifications, clarifications, love letters, etc. there is no way to know what is PB and what is NPB. And there may be other newer notifications which you and me do not know of that allow the .45?

Until they snatch it away from, I am enjoying shooting my 1911A1.

.45 and .32.... no comparison mate!

AMK

[penpusher]

So all the commissioners and deputy commissioners in Mumbai are breaking the law then since so many years?

Yes and knowingly at that.

And there may be other newer notifications which you and me do not know of that allow the .45?

Unfortunately no.

BTW .45 bore is allowed.A firearm in .45ACP is not.