Mechanism of GRETTA

[casual shooter]

Dear All,
Happen to see one VDO on you tube regarding Internal mechanism of Gretta Brahamastra, appeared to be more like Makarov / PPK , where in the barrel happened to be integrated with the body.
I am not sure about the metallurgy or workmanship, but the overall appeared quite OK.
Pundits please comment.
regards
CS

[revolver]

I was not too impressed with blueing or the fit and finish of the weapon in the video. But yes the double action mechanism of the pistol certainly is a welcome change. Metallurgy will only be proven once a significant number have owned it for long duration and and have fired a large number of rounds. But considering that these new companies are getting their weapons proof tested from RFI/GSF, the metallurgy should be acceptable.

[timmy]

I was not able to find a youtube video showing the internal mechanism of the Gretta Brahamastra. If you could post the link, I'd be very interested in watching it.

The only youtube video reviews of this pistol that I could find are the typical youtube rubbish that generally consists of:
1. See the pistol
2. Isn't it pretty?
3. Manufacturer's advertisements

Occasionally, there will be an "in depth" review that includes this "information":
4. See the pistol go bang

No such prattle is helpful for answering your question.

From what I can see, I would guess that this pistol is based on the Walther PP. (The old Soviet Makarov is also based on the Walther PP design.)

One give-away is the pivot pin you can see at the bottom end of the trigger guard. This allows the top of the trigger guard to be pulled from the frame. The upper part of the trigger guard inside the frame is the forward slide stop. When the trigger guard is pulled down, it allows the slide to move forward from its normal position. This allows the slide to correspond to reliefs in the frame and be removed from the gun.

Another clue is the safety, which is on the slide on the left hand side, near the hammer.

As the pistol is advertised as being double action, my guess would be that they have reverse engineered a Walther PP -- copied it -- while reshaping the exterior.

Blow back actions have the barrel affixed to the frame in operation by some means, as the only things that keep the firing pressure sealed in the chamber and barrel during firing is the inertia of the slide mass and the tension of the recoil spring. Low power cartridges usually use blow back actions, which are cheaper and easier to manufacture. Exceptions I know of are a model of the Spanish Llama, which has a short recoil action. This pistol is a miniature version of the 45 Auto 1911, but in 32 Auto. The other that I know of is a Kel-Tec, a plastic frame pocket gun of small size. I understand that, in this small package, the Kel-Tec's use of the short recoil, rather than blowback action lessens the recoil of shooting and makes the little gun, which is hard to hold, much more manageable. But, as I've never shot one, I cannot say this by personal experience.

Another thing I'd like to draw your attention to: Look at the name and the trademark on the gun:


"Gretta" trademark


"Beretta" trademark

Given the three circles inside the circle, the similarity of three rockets looking like three arrows, and how "Gretta" can sound like "Beretta," you can make up your own mind as to whether this "Gretta Gun Works" is trying to sound like the gun is made by the world's oldest, and one of the most respected gun makers. You can also google the company and see reports of what it consists.

For myself, I would be mildly surprised if Beretta does not undertake trademark violations against "Gretta," if they think it is worth the bother. Trying to sound like a respected manufacturing name is a very old marketing tactic, and as it relies upon a person misunderstanding or making a mistake, not a particularly straightforward one.

The Walther PP/PPK/PPKS is a lengendary name in pistols, but as a modern gun, it's not the best design in double action pistols. The Markarov, from what I've handled, is nice, but comes chambered in that strange Soviet cartridge that was intended to get the most powerful round in a small pistol using the blowback principle -- a bit more power than the 380 Auto. Makarovs are quite nice.

I would suggest that, if you handle a double action 32 Auto pistol, you check the double action trigger pull. It can be quite stiff, as that first trigger pull must also cock the hammer, as in a double action revolver. This fact has made me turn away from setting my Wife up with a double action 32 Auto. She can't pull the trigger for the first shot. When thinking about this, you may find that the double action feature isn't all that much better than the single action of the Colt Pocket Pistol/Ashani design when it comes to practical, real world use.

You would also want to make sure that the hammer doesn't rest on the firing pin, in case the manufacturer has altered the original PP/PPK/PPKS design for easier and cheaper manufacture. When carrying the pistol with a round in the chamber, your life may depend on whether the hammer will hit the firing pin if the pistol is accidentally dropped. Scams like cribbing a trademark don't give me a lot of confidence in this area, although I'm not saying that "Gretta" has not made a reliable pistol regarding the safeness of the action. Then again, I'm not saying they have made a reliable pistol, either. I just don't know.

Remember, in such a pistol, there are (or, at least, one hopes that there are) mechanical pieces inside the gun's lockwork that will keep you safe in case of an accident. For instance, I do have confidence that the parts in my Colt double actions, my 1911 45 Auto, and my CZ 70 32 Auto are up to the task of keeping me safe. I don't have confidence in the parts inside my Chinese Norinco "Star," so I carry it with the chamber empty.

When it comes to metallurgy, you are right to question this. If the parts of the gun have been properly heat treated, you can expect that leaving it on the table in the sunlight won't cause it to begin to melt (sorry for the sarcasm), and that the springs aren't going to fail at an inopportune time. Or, you can expect that after shooting several hundred rounds through it, the slide won't be loose and rattle on the frame. (Hint here: if you look at a pistol, shake it a little with the hammer cocked. The pressure of the hammer down on the slide will hold it tight, but when cocked, may allow you to see how loose the slide fits to the frame.)

All told, I don't see any way anyone can answer your questions unless they've thoroughly tested the gun themselves, and by this, I mean something quite different from what jokes one sees posted on youtube.

Good luck, and let us know if you find anything useful about this gun.

[casual shooter]

Wow what a detailed description, Thanks for this wonderful piece of knowledge.
Personally i feel, Indian hand gun manufacturers should concentrate of their own design and development, although the basic mechanical principles of the hand gun are not rocket science, I think one like the sss, and the astr defense are putting in their own efforts.
Thanks again Timmy.
regards

[casual shooter]

here we are

[timmy]

I think I can provide a better observation of the Walther PP operation that I first mentioned.

I am not a Hindi speaker, but the youtube video seems good, from what I can see (as opposed to hearing).

Give me a little bit of time, and I will put together a better reply. My comments on the "Gretta" are still what I can do for you, but I can explain the Walther PP better, for what it's worth.

Right now, however, my Wife has assigned some housekeeping duties and I dare not displease her.

[timmy]

click on this to enlarge. It is a large picture


This disassembly is pretty helpful. It doesn't exactly show how things work, but it does show the parts pretty well.


This cutaway animation will go some way toward describing how things work.


This parts picture from Numrich https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufa ... ts-list-pp will help when we start discussing the operation, so that we can understand what parts we're talking about.

[veeveeaar]

[winnie_the_pooh]

Was put off by the name and the logo. Don't have a lot of expectations from a company that resorts to such unethical practices.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Copying a design is one thing. The copyright on this would have long expired. Many manufacturers copy the mechanism of successfull designs. But copying name and logos albiet with some changes, is unethical. Both New Light and Gretta are guilty of it.

[Ashok raju]

Here is the some new information about Gretta. Posted by Indiangunner

Screenshot_2023-04-05-08-42-15-44_1c337646f29875672b5a61192b9010f9.jpg

[timmy]

???

I'm sorry, but I haven't gotten to checking out the Walther PP and Makarov designs thoroughly yet -- I've run into a few problems here and haven't been dedicating myself to getting this job done.

Interestingly, the pistol posted in the above ad doesn't look anything like the one in the video posted by the OP. This one looks to mimic 1911 lines, but I would suppose that it's a blowback design, although the Llama also looks like the 1911 and has a short recoil action -- one of the few 32 Autos to have a locking breech.

Interestingly, I've found that the Walther and the Makarov, which is supposed to be designed from the Walther, really doesn't look like a Walther PP to me at all. Externally, maybe, but both a blowback pistols. How much variation can one have in the mechanisms of 32 Auto blowback pistols?

Well in the cases of the Walther PP and Makarov, the differences are in the trigger/hammer/firing system.

Just like, when the Soviets supposedly copied the 1911 to come up with the TT33, but the whole firing system was changed, so too is the firing system of the Makarov unlike the Walther PP. The Walther PP works a lot like a double action revolver, with a double action strut on the hammer. The Makarov has nothing like that.

What these Gretta people have inside of their pistols is anyone's guess, whichever one they actually bring to market.

I like the touting of the all-metal construction. That's going to be a real advantage over a "plastic" pistol when one only has 50 to 200 rounds allocated per year! After all, how many folks are going to use these pistols in target practice and competition?

[timmy]

???

I'm sorry, but I haven't gotten to checking out the Walther PP and Makarov designs thoroughly yet -- I've run into a few problems here and haven't been dedicating myself to getting this job done.

Interestingly, the pistol posted in the above ad doesn't look anything like the one in the video posted by the OP. This one looks to mimic 1911 lines, but I would suppose that it's a blowback design, although the Llama also looks like the 1911 and has a short recoil action -- one of the few 32 Autos to have a locking breech.

Interestingly, I've found that the Walther and the Makarov, which is supposed to be designed from the Walther, really doesn't look like a Walther PP to me at all. Externally, maybe, but both a blowback pistols. How much variation can one have in the mechanisms of 32 Auto blowback pistols?

Well in the cases of the Walther PP and Makarov, the differences are in the trigger/hammer/firing system.

Just like, when the Soviets supposedly copied the 1911 to come up with the TT33, but the whole firing system was changed, so too is the firing system of the Makarov unlike the Walther PP. The Walther PP works a lot like a double action revolver, with a double action strut on the hammer. The Makarov has nothing like that.

What these Gretta people have inside of their pistols is anyone's guess, whichever one they actually bring to market.

I like the touting of the all-metal construction. That's going to be a real advantage over a "plastic" pistol when one only has 50 to 200 rounds allocated per year! After all, how many folks are going to use these pistols in target practice and competition?

[kanzakibullet]

Hi,

I found some more information on the Greta company and their Brahmastra pistol. Perhaps this will help throw some more light on the design and quality of this gun.
Here is the link to their website: https://grettagunworks.com/
Here is the link to the brochure (user manual) on the Brahmastra pistol: https://grettagunworks.com/28%2002%202023%201.pdf

I could not find any information on how much the gun costs though.

Kanzaki Bullet