Indian made muskets

[kanwar76]

Hi All,

Does anyone here have info on the Indian made muskets? In my limited search I came across a company called loyalist arms. Does anyone knows where they are based or any other company which make and export muskets?

Any info will be appreciated

-Inder

[Jr.]

A Musket in India will be illegal, to the best of my knowledge.
May be wrong though.
These are locally made and filled with round balls (not necessarily lead) for projectile.
Cycle Ball-Bearings are commonly used.
Sharp projectiles are also used, which are small and not completely round.
Barrell is Smooth-Bore.
Gunpowder, cloth (small piece) and projectile are stuffed down from the Muzzle.
Don't remember the sequence of the above.
This is then rammed.
A fuse/cap is used to ignite the powder, once the trigger is squeezed.
There is sufficient time lapse between pressing the trigger and discharge.
More like a long hang-fire.
When fired, specially at night, the spark from both ends is enough to blind you momentarily.
Good for close range only, about 20-30 yards.
Some tribes in India use them.
I doubt one will get the permission, in India to retain or own a functional Musket.

Regards,
Jr.

[timmy]

Good to see you, Inder!

I have found a "Loyalist Arms" located in Arkansas, USA and another in Nova Scotia, Canada. I didn't find an Indian website for "Loyalist Arms." I don't know whether the USA or Canadian companies make their own products or whether they are imported from India, or a mix of both, as what I'd seen doesn't give much detail regarding those questions. Here are some links you might care to review:

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthrea ... ed-version
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threa ... ns.350610/
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthrea ... ed-version
There are other sites that address this, as well, but none really get to the point of what specific arm or armory in India was involved.

The big issue as far as I can tell would be how the barrel is made. If it is from seamed tubing, I would think it would be very unsafe.

These are locally made and filled with round balls (not necessarily lead) for projectile.
Cycle Ball-Bearings are commonly used.
Sharp projectiles are also used, which are small and not completely round.
Barrell is Smooth-Bore.

I'm presuming one would have a convenient source of the proper sized ball bearings to use as projectiles. Generally, one uses a ball slightly undersized and patches it with cotton textile that is ~ 0.010" thick to fit the bore snugly. This prevents the ball from falling out of the barrel when the gun is tipped, provides a gas seal between the bore and ball, and, if the barrel is rifled, grips the rifling to impart rotation.

Finding a bullet mould that would allow casting of lead projectiles, especially spheres, can't be too hard. I don't know whether importation of a spherical mould would be possible, but if so, spherical moulds are widely available in many diameters and custom moulds can be cut in nearly any diameter one could wish. If they were shipped simply as a mould, rather than a bullet mould, perhaps they may come through customs without eliciting unwanted attention.

A fuse/cap is used to ignite the powder, once the trigger is squeezed.
There is sufficient time lapse between pressing the trigger and discharge.
More like a long hang-fire.

I'm making an assumption here that matchlock or flintlock muskets are what's being referred to here.

A good flintlock properly primed with 4fg powder and with a clean touch hole and a good flint should fire pretty quickly, although, of course, it won't have the "lock time" of a centerfire metallic cartridge in this regard. People used flintlock shotguns in the old days pretty commonly, and in this use, lock time when shooting at a moving target would be of critical concern. My point is, hangfires shouldn't or needn't be an issue if everything is right.

Matchlocks would not be significantly different, as long as a proper match was used.

When fired, specially at night, the spark from both ends is enough to blind you momentarily.

This is the typical behavior of any black powder firearm: burning residue and even powder does come flying out of the barrel when the gun is fired, no matter what kind of gun we are talking about.

I've thought about getting a matchlock, myself, but haven't ever followed through with it. Buying the ones I've seen for sale is as expensive as buying any other kind of gun, generally. The ones I've considered were usually copies of Japanese muskets, which were quite trim. As they were used into fairly recent times in Japan, they had a considerable degree of refinement. Of course, if equipped with a rifled barrel, they should provide the range and accuracy of any other muzzle loading black powder weapon. One drawback to matchlock weapons for hunting is that the smell of the burning match could spook game, but this wouldn't be an issue in India. Likewise, even the flash of a flintlock could be detrimental.

[Shivaji.Dasgupta]

Inder now a days this muskets or muzzle loaders only manufactured for some specific purpose. In Rural areas the local black Smith can produce this stuff.
In most of the rural area there are one or two suppliers or manufacturers who used to supply these stuff.
Now a days 12g local made guns are more in demand rather than a muzzle loader.

[Cordite]

Hi, Inder was enquiring for me.

I'm located in New Zealand and looking round for a black powder muzzle loader and why not go to the source for the best deal?

They are made in India from proper seamless tubing, but the USA imports lack a touch hole, thus making them compliant with your gun laws.

The hole is drilled by the importer or the end customer as in this video:


Here is a more technical review that should make Indians proud:
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/ ... fety.shtml

I think this shows what sort of manufacturer I talk about. It really is legitimate and in accordance with India gun laws, because the rifle/musket is not made functional until at the overseas destinations.

[kanwar76]

Good to see you, Inder!

I have found a "Loyalist Arms" located in Arkansas, USA and another in Nova Scotia, Canada. I didn't find an Indian website for "Loyalist Arms." I don't know whether the USA or Canadian companies make their own products or whether they are imported from India, or a mix of both, as what I'd seen doesn't give much detail regarding those questions. Here are some links you might care to review:

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthrea ... ed-version
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threa ... ns.350610/
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthrea ... ed-version
There are other sites that address this, as well, but none really get to the point of what specific arm or armory in India was involved.

The big issue as far as I can tell would be how the barrel is made. If it is from seamed tubing, I would think it would be very unsafe.

Thanks for the link Timmy,

Nice to be here.

[kanwar76]

Hi, Inder was enquiring for me.

I'm located in New Zealand and looking round for a black powder muzzle loader and why not go to the source for the best deal?

They are made in India from proper seamless tubing, but the USA imports lack a touch hole, thus making them compliant with your gun laws.

The hole is drilled by the importer or the end customer as in this video:


Here is a more technical review that should make Indians proud:
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/ ... fety.shtml

I think this shows what sort of manufacturer I talk about. It really is legitimate and in accordance with India gun laws, because the rifle/musket is not made functional until at the overseas destinations.

Welcome to IFG Cordite,

Please see the links posted by Timmy, if those are of any help. As I was telling you earlier, our 2 guns limit, limits the scope of trying other things so people prefer 12g and small arms than muzzle loaders.

Lets see if someone posts more info.

[Jr.]

Hi Cordite,
Thank you very much for the information.
Very informative video.
Had no idea that Muskets were exported from India.
Complete eye-opener.
Have seen some strongly built Muskets (Barrel) in the past.
I will try and locate the manufacturer, have a fair idea.
Will take some time.

Regards,
Jr.

[Cordite]

Hi Kanwar76

I read those links, very reassuring (I'm literally blown away, pun intended!) by the story of the mercilessly SEVERE C.I.P. proof test done on an Indian Musket in Germany. An enjoyable, edge-of-your-seat read:

"I have been at the proofhouse to get the official test and proof on one of those India muskets that I have ordered for my brother. He and his men are reenacting the Ansbach-Bayreuth Troop of soldiers, send over to the AWI to fight for the British King.

Bad thing - since February this year, we have a new, stronger gun law in Germany. This also means new rules for the gun proof.

What they did was measureing the barrel, then they put 300 grain FF powder plus 2 patched round balls into the barrel and fired it from the musket 5 times!
They measured after each shot. Well the musket made it. Proofstamps on it tells you it is considered "Safe to shoot".
No cracks in the stock, no harms to the barrel – no harms to the breech plug - everything is fine."