colt over under.

[shooter]

a while back ( read >1yr back), i was going through a shotgun catalouge.
i saw a colt over/under shotgun.
recently during my search for a shotgun both on the net and in the real world ( read greater london), i didnt come across an o/u colt.
neither did i hear about it on this forum.
can somebody plz shed some light.

p.s. curiously, it was the lightest gun listed in that book( < 3 kg). which at that time seemed to be a major plus point but now i know it is not so.

[Grumpy]

Probably because Colt don`t currently offer a shotgun of any de.scription.

The last Colt shotgun that I am aware of is the `Armsmear` ( horrible name ! ) O/U which they imported from Europe and stuck their name on.

3kg is 6.6 lbs which is lightweight game gun territory. A nice weight for a game gun but quite light for an O/U - the Armsmear weighed 7 1/2 lbs.

There are plenty of guns around 6 1/2 lbs nowadays. There is a trend in Italy to bring O/U game guns down to SxS type weights by using alloy receivers. As far as I know the French Bretton Gaucher Baby Bretton O/U with its slide and tilt barrel opening is still the lightest 12-Bore available at 2.2kg ( 4lb 6oz. ) I used to have one and really liked it as a walked-up rough shooting gun.
The Bretton Gaucher website is:
http://www.bretton-gaucher.com/anglais/f_legers.htm
- and heres a picture of a ( Baby ) Fairplay Standard.

[shooter]

thanks grumpy.
armsmear it was.
the name was escaping me.

intresting concept about light clay guns.
what about recoil?
when a person shoots 500 rounds a day..... its got to hurt.

[Grumpy]

A lightweight British game gun used to be reckoned as being around 6 lb 4 oz or less - normal weight was 6 lb 4 oz - 6 lb 14 oz. People used to shoot those all day long ......... back in the days when driven bird `bags` amounted to hundreds a day AND they`d do that several days a week.
People are using lighter loads nowadays - Trap and Skeet loads are now only 24 grammes - when the standard bird load was 1 1/8 oz - 32 grammes. I use 24 gramme loads in my 12-Bore 2" lightweight which weighs only 5 1/2 lbs with no problems whatsoever.
I reckon that there are a lot of wimps about nowadays Dev !

[shahid]

Not really a question of wimps, but it is a matter of an individual's built and size.

In my personal experience, after firing 4 rounds at the skeet range, where 100 shots are usually taken in 40 to 45 minutes, my right shoulder has a red welt and does hurt a bit.

More so if I have fired the lighter Beretta 20 Bore that day.

Maybe if I did the same in winter clothing, the result would be quite different. But Winter in Dubai means about 20 to 22 C during the daytime.

[Grumpy]

Hasn`t got too much to do with build and weight but an individuals sensitivity to recoil. My wife used to knock out 200 clays in a morning when she was under 120 lbs - 54 kg - with no problem at all.
I used to regularly shoot 800-1000 clays over a weekend without noticing - there`s damn all recoil from a 24 gm load in an 8 1/2 lb gun - IMO anyway.

[mundaire]

Not to mention incorrect mount and stance... old habits are hard to cure and bad stance would give you a sore shoulder AND a poor score to boot!

[Grumpy]

Yes, well said and very true.

[shahid]

Sure, a bad stance can sure throw a gun around on the shoulder.

What I use here mostly is a Beretta Silver Pigeon or Oryx 686, they are comparitively heavier guns hovering around the 7 lb to 7 ib 12 Oz range depending upon stock length.

One particular gun has the stock altered to suit lady shooters. This one recoils the least with a different recoil pas ( air cushion and soft rubber ). THe top portion of the recoil pad has been cut off.

[shooter]

i agree with grumpy about build not mattering. if i recall correctly, grumpy you have mentioned elsewhere another instance of a girl and her 6' foot plus boyfriend (who later had to shoot 20 bore.)
i am not very heavily built and have shot >100 rounds in around an hour but it never hurts ( though my shoulders start getting tired.)
i have seen girls shoot on the grounds but sometimes athletic people get pain.
would i be correct in assuming that cast affects cheek-slap?

[Grumpy]

The guy and the girl are two separate instances ...... and Robs wife would be very interested to know that he has a girlfriend ( LOL ) but he is massive yet has to use light 20-Bore loads. He makes ip for that by being a hell of a good shot !
Cast doesn`t generally have much do do with `cheek-slap` - that`s more to do with a poor hold......or a butt pad or spacer that projects a little.

[dev]

I reckon that there are a lot of wimps about nowadays Dev ![/quote]

I am bored of my air rifles and .22 lr, wish i had something like a .303




Dev

[Grumpy]

I can sympathise with that Dev - there are times when you get fed up with flicking pebbles and feel like chucking a brick instead.
Coincidentally, I really suffer from recoil when using Lee Enfield .303 service rifles - it`s not to do with the actual recoil as such but the shape of the stock which whacks me on the collar bone every time and hurts like heck. I`ve shot far more powerful calibres which have caused me no problems at all.

[shooter]

oops sorry rob, my bad memory.
grumpy, 32g load refers to the shot weight not the gunpowder wt.
then why should it have more recoil?
do heavier shot loads have more gunpowder in them. (or cordite).

[Grumpy]

Assuming that other variables remain the same - eg, the same weight and type of powder, same bore size, same gun ( and same weight of gun ) - it can be assumed that the greater the weight of shot, the greater the recoil. It`s basic physics - `for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction`. Or in basic terms, `the more you push out the front the more the push back`.
Add more powder so that the velocity is increased to compare with lighter loads and the recoil increases even more.
Mark can probably explain it far more elegantly....... - and maybe even supply the math - but that`s Grumpys Idiots guide - `by a dummy, for dummies`