Poll -Should we allow hunting related posts on this forum

[hvj1]

Thanks SHooter,
For the Wealth of info.
BR

[prashantsingh]

Only 41 people voted on this topic, and it is still so active. Lots of comments coming up even after the polling got over, many days ago.
Why don't we open up the poll again. For those who could not get a chance to vote earlier. (if it is possible). So that we can get a better idea.
I am sure everyone is enjoying the posts ....whether they are for or against hunting.

[mundaire]

Why don't we open up the poll again. For those who could not get a chance to vote earlier. (if it is possible). So that we can get a better idea.

Done, and people now have the option of changing their vote as well... in case some have changed their mind - either which way!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[shooter]

thanks mundaire.

[gverma]

Do you know in the UN international convention or treaties (dont know the technical name) of war, it is unethical and illegal to use rifles in war that havent been properly zeroed and thats because it might result in a badly placed shot resulting in more pain and suffering than necessary.

I remember one of my friends who is in the army telling me that for most operations they would rather wound a soldier than kill him because it is ethical obligation of the army to carry their wounded and hence if they wound the team would become slower and 4 people would be busy with the wounded soldier.

[gunnera4]

this is news to me, granted it was many years ago, but properly zeroing the sights on our rifles was a matter of prime importance in my days as a u.s. marine, and present day marines in afghanistan are complaining that afghani troops/police serving with them cannot shoot accurately. i suggest this is not an inherent fault of afghanis, but the result of poor training by "contractor" trainers, at least some of whom may be americans whose own qualifications were not properly vetted.

[nagarifle]

Do you know in the UN international convention or treaties (dont know the technical name) of war, it is unethical and illegal to use rifles in war that havent been properly zeroed and thats because it might result in a badly placed shot resulting in more pain and suffering than necessary.

I remember one of my friends who is in the army telling me that for most operations they would rather wound a soldier than kill him because it is ethical obligation of the army to carry their wounded and hence if they wound the team would become slower and 4 people would be busy with the wounded soldier.

girls and boys can we stay with hunting animals (4legs type) and not war related on this thread please.

dankun shan, muoochs grasyasses, thanks,

[dr.jayakumar]

hi, so far we haven't concluded!!we can't hunt but talking is not a sin.no food for threedays in a forest with a camera and a rifle will let us seek for honey and fruits!!!

[SMJ]

Hi I am not too sure if this poll is still open 5 years down the line; anyhow it was an excellent read- everyone's point of view on this debate/poll was absolutely amazing - certainly learned a few things!

Rather than vote on this I would just like to add my thoughts on a specific topic and hope to receive some responses:)

I do not own firearms yet but of course air rifles, an air pistol, few knives and a snake rescue kit which consists of 2 hooks and a bag.
Just like some of you here, my inspiration for the shooting sport was inspired by stories of Kenneth Anderson and Jim Corbett as well as my love for the jungle! Having said that, so far I have not even had the heart to shoot a rat and don't know if I ever will even if it is legal!

What I found most intriguing amongst everything else on this thread was the small debate of legal hunting as a means of conservation. I believe it can work wonders BUT can it do so in a country like India??
I do not mean to offend anyone as I am Indian and live in India. However my perception is that we are country of people known for finding loop holes in everything legal irrespective of whether or not it is open to interpretation. The point I am making is that even if it were to be opened up in India - how would it be monitored to ensure that the specific game the license was issued for was shot and nothing else? I also am inclined to believe that the older generation of hunters were loyal to their profession and therefore the rules were meticulously followed by and large (there may have been exceptions). I for one don't believe people today have the same sense of morals and values left, which is another worrying factor if it were opened up.

I also have another theory about legal hunting being opened up in India - it would mean that the money goes into the forest department for conservation efforts- this effectively means that the corrupt people who did what they did to or turned a blind eye to illegal hunting will no longer benefit from this program- so who's to ensure the money will actually go back to conservation efforts? On the contrary, in the name of legal hunting it will probably make lives much easier for these guys (corrupt officials) and hence would possibly lead to even wider destruction of fauna through issuance either fake hunting licenses for a small bribe or even if a legal permit were issued to kill just one of the species, in reality possibly 3 of the same species may be killed with officials either bribed for the 2 extra kills or threatened by the rich and influential.
Unfortunately, this is my perception of the stark realities of this country and my fellow countrymen. This is of course only my opinion ladies (if any) and gentlemen and I repeat no offence meant to anyone.

Having said all of the above, I also think we are a culturally brilliantly rich and diverse country with an amazing history and fantastic geographical landscape with such a wide variety of flora and fauna - this is a beautiful country which at one point had all 4 big cats exist within its realm. Sad that the cheetah went extinct.


Shailen

[fencehen]

Objective comments:

Objectively speaking. I.e based on scientific evidence, I learned that hunting is a tool in habitat management. No single animal has become extinct in North America because of legal hunting. This is a fact. Infact hunting plays a manjor role in the survival of animals. Any given habitat can only support a certain number of animal of different species based on the availability of food, shelter, water etc.. If the number exeeds, then they can end up becoming extinct by starvation and can impact the population of other animals indirectly.

Legal hunting happens in a larger framework where the concerned department, the fish and game department of respective states in case of North America do research and over the year mesure the different animal numbers in different habitats and do all kind of analysis of this numbers and calculate the optinum numbers for a healthy habitat. The excess are available for harvesting by hunters. The harvesting of big game for example is usually done by selling tags against each animal kill and in case the number of hunters exceed the demand there is a lottery system. The sale proceeds of the tags and the tax on firearms and ammunition is what funds the conservation effort i.e the salaries of the fish and game staff and their work. This method of scietific consevation has been working very well in North America. The animal numbers, some of which were decimated, have grown to very healthy numbers in terms of the maximum that a particular habitat can support. One has to understand and appreciate that the respective fish and game departments bring out anual hunting regulations based on the anual appriasal of figures in respective game areas in the state. Ther are laws that are updates regularly. The basic law here, is that it is illegal to waste any part of edible game.

As part of the hunter education programs, the hunter is advised to keep a low profile with repect to carrying firearms and transporting game etc.. And is also advised to not get into arguments with anti hunting individuals or groups. There are statistics as to what percentage of population have subjective opinions w.r.t hunting i.e what population like it, support it, are against it etc.. If I remember right only 6 or 7 percentage of the population actively hunts in the United States. And it is in the larger interest of this group to not alianate the larger neutral public with regards to hunting.

Subjective comments:

In my opinion, the north american model will work very well for India or any other country on this planet.

BUT:

Do you think the way our present system is setup in India, our babus i.e the goverment employees will work towards bringing up such a legal framework. NO NO NO.. because that would mean working. Ha.. who would want to work like that. It would involve those arm chair PhD people from the various institutions working towards framing laws and tacking direct action based on their studies.. who would want to move out of their A.C rooms and get involved in all that. And above all our politicians to get involved in this process, man that would be the day.. So things will continue as is in India. Present setup is easy, get job in forest service.. you never have to work your while life.. go to a forest bunglow and eat drink and live happily ever after, and you will even get a pension. Ha.. that is something. So Indian model is simple, Ban everything. So the concerned governement setup need only thing in black and white. Anyone who hunts is a poacher and he is illegal. Thats simple to implement. Who wants to work their asses off and distribute land interms of different habitat and then study it and then come up with all the numbers and then have anual regulations and then update all the archaic laws to support this infracture etc.. Sabh Mast hai.. why bother, the citizens are anyways donkeys..

Another aspect is keeping state and state laws separate from any establishment of religion. Now some people would argue that India will need many years to keep up with the developed world, but the point is not the that. The point is getting the basics right. The Indian constitution has serious flaws in my opinion, otherwise the kind of bullshit debates now happening and the kind of laws now being passed would have had no scope in the framework. But since that is not the case, any animal can be a godly creature and how can we allow hunting or even eating godly creatures. a.k.a the holliness of cow for example. The first amendment to the Unites States constution was adopted in 1791, although the founding fathers of the United States were christians they studied the civilization and societies till date and figured out that linking the state to any religion can be detrimental to their progress.

Thats all the time I have for this, now. This is my second post here. Since posting hunting material on a gun forum would not be alianating many, my vote is for Yes. If this forum was an animal lovers forum, my vote would be No. big NO.

Now my last very subjective comment:

A no hunting material posting guns forum would be like an underwear without elastic.

[aadhaulya]

I have voted yes because hunting related posts were always available here (from other countries) and at least I really enjoyed them. Even though hunting is banned and after so many years I do not know if I would be able to hunt again even if I wanted to.
I also know that since it is banned and some bigwigs have also been caught hunting it is more of a hassle to hunt than avoid it.
Any way the question here is not about allowing hunting, but posts related to hunting only. It should be totally allowed and since it is in a separate section, people who have an objection need not go there.
Off course the policy of not posting anything illegal (depending where one lives) remains. I mention this as there are a lot of districts where hunting is allowed for pest control.

Atul

[SMJ]

Aaudhulya yes it is only a poll to see if hunting posts should be allowed and even I think they should be if it is completely legal. My post was a little OTT but I thought it would be good to see how everyone else perceived this concept in India considering our forum is called Indians for guns

Fencehen - some good points you have there chief - the most important one being "who wants to work "- could not agree more
Also regarding the guys in the FD at ground level - more than half of them know NOTHING about wildlife or forests - i am sure someone here can also corroborate this.
When I went to Koyna a few years back and was walking in the reserved forest with all due permission in place and a forest guard with me I am fairly proud to say I correctly identified carnivora scat-the forest guard had NO idea what scat it was. He asked me how I knew it was carnivora scat and then I pointed out to the fur in the scat hence the conclusion. I also mentioned that it was panther scat as far as I could judge as it was open and not covered like a tigers scat which I suppose they usually do -again this could be totally wrong - just read it somewhere and was applying book knowledge. Also more likely to be a leopard as we were in a rocky, hilly and slightly dense terrain which was more likely to hold leopards rather than tiger. Of course there were 5 tigers (or so officials claim) in those forests at the time as Koyna is part of the Sayadhri tiger reserve which was created quite recently. I guess what I am trying to say is that how I wish I had learned from him or people like him and not the other way around

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

Just saw this while replaying to another thread. I will support my Indian brothers and sisters but I have no place sticking my nose into your cultural issues so I cannot vote. I will also say I am fine with both positions as came up in a recent thread as they both come from honorable principles.

[Oggie]

To be perfectly honest I'm extremely averse to unnecessary censorship ! Sure - discussion of illegal hunting should be prohibited but legal hunting can and must be discussed. Moral policing aside it's an activity I enjoy and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I've been a hunter all my life and will continue to be one. I enjoy my time in the outdoors and have met some of my best friends through this activity. I conduct myself with responsibility and never break the law. To me hunting is a way of life. Even when I'm old and unable to physically take on a hunt I'll be drinking single malt with my buddies discussing our hunts ! There you go...my 2 cents worth !