.22 LR best round

[Oggie]

Gentlemen (and any ladies present ),

I'd love some inputs from any of you that swear by and love their .22Lr's in context to the most effective rounds used for varminting. My question is specific to extending the range to between 100 and 150 mts. I'm a very big subsonic's fan. For obvious reasons - It's quiet, allows me the opportunity to take multiple shots without spooking my quarry and most farmers here in NZ insist on it as it does not spook the cattle. However I'm finding it hard to take reliable shots with my subs beyond a max of 100mts. In fact anything beyond 70 mts is a bit of a struggle. At 100 mts my subs (zeroed in at 50 mts) drop alomost 6 to 8 inches. So I came up with a cunning plan. I'm going to use the Ruger 10/22 for standard and high velocity and the Savage Mark 2 bolt action for subs at shorter ranges. This will allow me to separate the tools by purpose and stop me fiddling around on the zeroing all the while. I've got the Savage sorted on subs. I use Winchester subs 40 gr and its a tack driver upto 70 yards. The help I need is with the standard and high velocity rounds for the Ruger 10/22.

My questions are :

Are any of you advocates of a specific standard or high velocity rounds that performs well on the 10/22 ?

Has anyone here used Stingers ? if so what distance would you zero in at to chart a reliable drop pattern to 100 - 150 mts ?

How do Velocitors perform ?

Any inputs would be very helpfull.

Best,

Oggie

[xl_target]

Sorry I missed this Oggie,

Here's the problem, rifles (especially .22 LR Rifles) can be very individual in their liking for certain brands of ammo.
With today's manufacturing methods, one would think that there would be a lot of similarity in their affinity for Brand A or Brand B.
However, the only way I know to make sure is to shoot different brands and see which one gives you the best accuracy.

There are a lot of things that can affect the accuracy of a 10/22.
The chamber; if too loose, consistency is going to be affected. Was your chamber cut with a new reamer or was it made at the end of the run when the reamer was starting to dull?
The factory sights on the 10/22: While great for general shooting, it is hard to be precise with them at distances over 30 or 40 yards. For consistent or accurate shooting at distances over 25 yards, a scope might be needed.
The fit of the bolt to the barrel. If both faces are flat, the rifle will shoot more consistently.
How loose is the firing pin in the bolt? Is the staking of the firing pin channel of the in the bolt good enough to prevent excessive movement?
Many of these factors are out of your control as a purchaser. You have to shoot the darn thing to find out

Some suggestions:
CCI standard Velocity is very consistent for me. Most CCi stuff is decent.
Wolf Match Target (or most Lapua/SK stuff) is very consistent.
Most of the other American brands like Remington and Winchester seem to be suffering from (old, outdated equipment?) inconsistency from batch to batch. However, Remington has a brand new ammo factory, that came or is coming online this year, so this may change.
Federal stuff is OK. Some Federal stuff is made by CCI (same parent company) and that can be pretty decent.
Eley is good stuff for the most part but I haven't had good luck with Eley in my 10/22, at longer distances.
See my 10/22 review (http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... er+10%2F22) for the way 10/22 performed with different brands of ammo.

When you get past 50 yards with a .22LR rifle, many other factors come into play,

[Oggie]

Thanks Xl,

I'd almost given up hope on a response to this ! Great post on the Ruger 10/22. I just love the .22 LR and am almost evangelistic about it's functional expertise. I've found Winchester subs 40 grainers work well with my 10/22. The Australian arm of Winchester has recently developed a 42 grain version in both subsonic as well as high velocity. Having tried both I must say I was very impressed indeed. Out here we use the .22 LR for rabbits, hares, possum, turkey and sometimes on goats. The winchester subs work a treat on all these species. I've since managed to find a range finder and using ballistic charts I've got a decent fix on drop patterns at beyond 100 mts. I'm going to test this out in a few weeks on a new property we've just got access to.

Cheers,

Oggie

[xl_target]

I agree Oggie.
I believe rifle skills are transferable over calibers.
If you can shoot .22LR rifles well, especially at distances over 100 yards, you should be able to shoot much longer distances with centerfire rifles.
It can be surprisingly difficult to shoot .22LR consistently over longer distance. It seems to require a detailed knowledge of the ballistic performance of the round.
Even small factors like temperature, humidity and altitude (that one doesn't pay much attention to normally) can affect your shooting.

It sounds like you have most of that well in hand.
Good hunting.

Last but not least, you have the ammo. Shooting .22LR consistently is frustrating because you get repeated flyers, no matter what you do.
One thing to be aware of is that you can get that first shot flyer from a 10/22. It seems that cocking and releasing the bolt by hand, seats it differently than when the rifle fires.
Some guys will load up the magazine, fire one shot and then always reload the magazine while there is one in the chamber.

[Oggie]

Ahh very interesting indeed Xl ! I did not know that. Yes I have noticed flyers but always accounted them to the shooter ! What is your experience with barrel temperature and its impact on accuracy with the 10/22 ? Obviously being a semi I'm assuming it was built to withstand some serious frequency shooting - am I wrong to assume that ? I had a .204 that was very heat sensitive. 3 shots in a row and then you could aim for Japan and land in China ( no bias or malice intended !) !

[xl_target]

Oggie,
Unlike your .204, the .22LR is a relatively low velocity round and the barrel of a 10/22 will allow for repeated magazine dumps without an appreciable decrease in accuracy.
Many years ago, a friend of mine had a 10/22 that had a rotary trigger actuator. He has a bunch of 25 round magazines and one day he let off a very large number of rounds in a very short amount of time. The barrel go so hot, we thought it would droop. Years later, the darn thing still shoots well.

Like the Toyota that Top Gear tried to destroy, you have to work really hard to destroy a 10/22.
The biggest problem will be the ammo. Some of the old wax coated bullets can plug the rifling eventually but I have not seen that with today's ammo.
Stay away from Remington and Winchester and you should be OK. They can be very hit or miss, with one batch performing flawlessly and another being just abysmal. I prefer CCI or Federal.

[Mark]

I never had good accuracy with Stingers and had a couple bad experiences with them not killing racoons so I won't use them anymore. However I had a friend that had a Remington Bolt rifle they shot well from and they were his favorite bullet. However, I would never use them for hunting anything larger than about a kilogram, but that is just my experience with my rifles and as XL says, your rifles will be different and only trying them (or any other bullet) can one make decisions.

[TwoRivers]

It can't be stressed enough that .22RF rifles tend to be very individualistic as far as ammo is concerned. Also, .22 LR ammo is probably the most variable ammo loaded. Also, ammo with a certain headstamp may have been contracted, and been loaded by another company. I know that Federal, when still family-held, would sometimes load .22 RF cartridges for Remington.

I'll agree with XL that Remington .22 RF today is nothing to brag about, it seems very variable even with recent ammo. As to Winchester, I used to like it, especially for my Winchester M52, which even shot HV hollow points well. But, haven't been able to buy any Winchester RFs for years now. Worst probably goes to Russian ammo, without head stamp, of mid 1930s vintage, though the US was never able to match their 1970-80s triathlon .22 RF. Ours would go to pot with cold varying temperature.

Storage conditions also affect .22 RF cartridges far more then center fire ammunition, since there is no tight seal between bullet and case. Both heat and moisture have greater relative effect; and the small powder charge greatly magnifies any charge variation. That's why premium target ammo is so much higher in price.

As to Stingers, I have a MAS 45 that will shoot them into a tight cloverleaf, five shots touching at 25 yards, one ragged hole. And that is with issue peep sight and two-stage training rifle trigger.

When you do try different brands, make sure you thoroughly clean the barrel between brands, bullet lubricants may not be compatible. When you do find a brand your rifle really likes, stock up on the ammo, next year's lot may act differently.

[HSharief]

I don't shoot for groups or game, mostly steel so I run just about anything I can find on my 10/22s. What little groups I've shot, I've had luck with Remington Thunderbolts, I'm sure I'm the odd one. My 10/22s shoot just about anything, TBs, Yellow Jackets, WWBs, Feds. I've never had to buy the more expensive stuff thankfully Here's additional resource for 10/22s.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/fo ... ay.php?f=9

There are a couple of guys on there that take your factory barrel and recut the chamber to increase accuracy. I'm not sure if it works from NZ but worth a look.

Also, did you try an aftermarket barrel ? Most people put reasonably priced (Green Mountain) after market barrels on their 10/22s (including 2 of mine). Maybe worth a look too, maybe a heavy tapered, fluted to help with heat.

[xl_target]

My 10/22 will also feed, fire and eject pretty much anything that I feed it.
However, it won't do this:


( five shot group) at 25 yards with all brands of .22LR ammo.

Oggies talking about shooting out to 70 yards.
I think he is going to have to be picky about his ammo.

I should also mention, Oggie, that it will take about a brick of ammo through it, before the rifle starts really shooting well.
Both mine did that.

[Oggie]

Actually I'm more interested in shooting out to 100 yards on to about the 150 mark. I've found shooting up to 50 yards to be a breeze. From 50 to 70 yards I'm pretty confident that I'd hit my target with kill shots. From there to 100 yards my confidence drops pretty much like the gravitational force exerted on the pill ! Couple of points to remember here. I'm talking hunting small game shots and I'm talking subsonics. For the kind of hunting (small game) we do here most farmers will only allow us access if we use suppressed subsonics.
I agree Xl - picking the right ammo is critical. I find the Winchester subs cycle well in my 10/22. The CCI ones dont. Groups with both are good though the Winchester outperforms the CCI. The opposite works on my Savage bolt action .22
Luckily being quite a prolific user of the .22 I've been through thousands of rounds so understand exactly how valid your points are Xl. However I'm quite new to the 10/22 having been a "bolty" most of my life ! I'm thoroughly enjoying the semi automatic function and wish I'd converted earlier.
In a few weeks I'm going to a property to test bullet drop at various ranges using a range finder. We'll be testing drop with both subs and super sonics. I'll make it a point to put the findings up.

[herb]

My experience too has been varied with Stingers. I had a CZ 452 on which I found it very hard to close the bolt after chambering a round. The stingers functioned flawlessly in my 10/22. Accuracy varied from rifle to rifle

I zeroed my 10/22 at 50 yards and the CZ's about 1 inch high at 75 yards.

My dad's cousin had a BSA single shot .22LR and told me this interesting use of his .22. This was in the 1960's/70's when hunting was legally allowed in India. He was serving in the Indian Air Force and was posted to North India (Agra, Naini Tal etc.) where he had many opportunities to hunt Big Game. He also had a Webley & Scott double barrel 12 Ga hammer gun, Blue Bull (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilgai) a large Indian antelope) which could weigh up to 600lbs were his primary quarry. The problem was that the herds were very wary and did not allow him to approach closer than 100 yards and his shotgun was of not much use at those distances. His strategy was to approach the herds as close as possible, 100 to 125 yards, select a nice bull and shoot it with his .22 in the heart lung area with a solid. The herd would start running and he and his friends would start following them, after a couple of hundred yards the wounded bull would fall further and further behind the herd and allow him to approach closer with in shotgun range and shoot the animal with a buck shot from his shotgun. He kept track of his kills by notches and dates on the sling of his .22 and I remember counting more than 20 as a boy.

I do not endorse this mode of wounding the animal, just stating the facts as I was told. I live in a different time and circumstance and am in no position to judge his mode of hunting, It was a time when hunting ethics took second place to procuring meat and feeding the family.

Herb

[ckkalyan]

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing xl_target and gentlemen!

Oggie do you think an integrally suppressed barrel would work for your sitution, you could use supersonic ammo?

Nice story herb!

[Oggie]

Hi CK, the integrally suppressed barrel would reduce the sound of the muzzle blast from a supersonic round, however the resounding crack from the projectile breaking the sound barrier will still be a spooker for cattle, horses on farms we shoot at. This means our best option is subsonic ammunition.

[ckkalyan]

OK Oggie - so the best combo would be integrally suppressed barrel + subsonic ammo for your particular application.