Shotgun buying advice for a newbie (in the UK)

[Sakobav]

shooter

The link to shotgun photos, and thread. My circumstances were lot different from yours in terms of choices I had and the options. All the best

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... &&start=30

[shooter]

nice pics ngrewal. thanks are you happy with the gun?
vikram, never be scared to express your love. as we say in hindi 'pyaar kiya to darna kya'( if ure in love, theres nothing to be afraid of'
plz read cooking/eating meat( had to mention it especially since i am a carnivore, not a non vegetarian as i dont eat veggies, only meat all day everyday.) and yes i love to cook vikram.

grumpy im so happay that mah misspelled word (read extra stroke on the keypad.) made me oh so posh. think i should should shoot driven grouse now (with mah purdaay)

went to 3 gunshops today

1 mays of london. saw a lincoln 101 sideplate 30" sporter, m/c complete set of 5; good wood, good grain, for a change, this had a long stock which fit me very well.475 pounds. on pulling the trigger once, there was a very loud, perceptible click. thic gun didnt have inertia cocking( didnt need the thump after the first first pull) was the click the second barrell getting cocked? when i changed the selection of the triggers, there was a click after both trigger pulls. this click was very loud and i could feel it. is that unusual? can such loud click distract from shooting or does one get used to it? i really liked this gun. how are lincolns grumpy? also saw 2 e. rizzinis.
saw a browning citori pounds 675 and a nikko 5000 mk2 around 625 pounds both these guns were 30" m/c. the browning citori was in very good condition.

2 international firearms a small shop but a good selection. other than the new bettinsolis, they had:
browning b425 30 inch sporter m/c which fit me very well. second gun (after the lincoln) to do so. 5 choke set, bag good condition.i liked it a lot but a bit bulky; not as light as a beretta or the lincoln.

they had 2 e. rizzinis sideplates 28". f/c for 200, m/c for 295. both had short stocks but fit my friend well.
they also had a 28" classic double, very good balance, very good chequering, very good engraving, very smooth trigger pull. pounds 675
they also had 2 berettas 686 and 686e both 30" sporters m/c for pounds 795.
this shop is having an open day next week and have invited me to come there and try out all of them free of charge with no commitment to buy. they will also be getting a beretta 682 for me to try out.

3 abridge armory. saw 2 rizzinis and 2 castallinis.
one rizzini and the castallinis were skeet guns.
the rizzini sporter was an e rizzini sideplate, wood not great but 28" m/c ( it was 27.5 including chokes.) 5 choke set. my friend REALLY liked this gun. it cost 250 but i think we will be able to bargain down to 225. i think the same holds true for ALL the guns mentioned above, i mean the bargaining.
even this gentleman was ok about taking his gun out for a trial and even gave me info about lot of open shoots nearby.
all the people i saw today were quite friendly and helpful esp getting better in the order mentioned.

i want to mention that the castellanis (forgive the spelling.) had very good quality walnut, very good engraving, crisp trigger pulls but didnt have sst/ ejectors. i was surprised to find such good wood and engraving(both in comparative terms.) in such a lesser known brand

the rizzini had some play in the safety- other than moving up down, it was also moving sideways a bit. is that a sign it is loose/ may need repair soon?

for me the 2 shortlists were, the lincoln and the browning b425. if i include the recoil pad, then the classic doubles too.
browning citori was short for me and a bit 'plain'.

note should i start a new thread bout gun storage/ cleaning/care or should i continue here?

[shooter]

forgot to mention, the classic doubles had a prince of wales stock.
plz read above as lincoln no 2 and classic doubles 101

[Grumpy]

I keep trying to warn you off E.Rizzinis but the message doesn`t seem to be getting through....... ( nudge, nudge, hint, hint....... ******* **** ! ) ( Make of that what you will but I`ll give you a clue - it ain`t good ! )
Lincolns are built by F.A.I.R.......and that `R` stands for Rizzini. Better than E.Rizzinis but not as good as B.Rizzinis. Bettinsolis were in `E.Rizzini` class but are now pretty comparable with F.A.I.R. ( Lincoln. ) as regards build quality, price and value for money.
A Prince of Wales grip will only be found on a game gun, not a Trap/Skeet/Sporting Clays gun.
Citoris are Japanese built and have been around for years. Americans got Browning Citoris and we got Browning 325/425/525s. Now we get Citoris as well........The new Citoris seem to be priced as a base model 525. 325s and 425s have been out of production for several years - the 525 is the current model.
Nikkos are Japanese. Good quality but haven`t been made for years.
As I said before, the Classic Doubles guns are Winchester 101 clones built in Japan. Good guns but also haven`t been made for years.
The louds clicks when you pull the trigger might just be a Lincoln trait - try another Lincoln to see if it also produces the same noise. Don`t expect superb performance and build quality from a Lincoln because they are pretty cheap. Pulling the first trigger can`t `cock` the locks - the act of opening or closing the gun is what sets the triggers. Some guns are `cocked` on opening, some on closing - It depends mechanism employed. Either both barrels or the first barrel only in the case of a gun which has the second barrel set by inertia.
Castellani used to make really cheap guns - folding .410s and the like - but seem to have gone somewhat upmarket in recent years. I don`t know much about them so can`t really comment but they seem to be similar in price/quality to the Lincolns/Bettinsoli.
Cleaning and storage are separate topics so start a new thread.

[shooter]

grumpy,
i am checking my post for the 40th time in 10 hrs waiting for your reply.

first of all thanks a lot re the info about fair.
i have seen fair name and guns on guntrader and have wondered about it.

second of all, i did read your post re: the rizzinis.
in fact i missed a b rizzini in a good condition as they just sold it.
(missed = missed seeing.)
i think i havent told you - and i claim responsibility for it- i am gonna buy 2 guns. one for myself and one for my mate.
his (ideally) requirements are:
"less than £300", should be m/c 28", sporter, look good, have gold engraving, durable, not a baikal, shouldnt misfire, shouldnt need repair for 2 years.
i think that should tell you why i ask 2 kinds of questions. i also thought it would give a wider coverage to this topic.

im not trying to belittle anyone but i have been looking for a gun that fits his specification as well, thats all.

when i ask for a b rizzini, those boys ( the owner wasnt there ) showed me the 'rizzini' so i read the emilio word, another long name that i dont remember (starting with 'a') and the eagle logo and immediately your post re rizzinis came to my mind. ( as i said before, I DO pay attention to your posts grumpy.)

just wanted to share my experience with you (all).

before and after seeing any gun i always visit guntrader site, the company site etc to see the comparative rates and how recent the model is.
in fact i even note down the model numbers for these guns. ( i also located the pics of your guns- berettas- on the net.)

i did check the browning int website. and do realise about the 525 now replacing the 425 in fact there was an article about it in sporting gun recently.

also you wud have noticed , rizzinis were not on my shortlist. just wanted other people to know about diff guns. and the reasons for choosing/ rejecting various guns despite their 'looks'/name/what the shopkeeper says.

thanks on the info re: prince of wales grip, - the rib was thin too.

i was told though the 425 is out of production, getting it repaired wouldnt be a problem.

ill be trying the browning 425 (the grade wasnt specified but when i compared to pics on the net, it WASNT grade1- 'browning' written in the engraving- or grade6- no golden bling- it had the standard 2 mallard engraving - grade 3 maybe?)
as i said it fit me well long stock- long enough for me.

ill try it out on sunday
wont be able to try the lincoln.(mays)

i know bulk reduces recoil. was i mistaken in thinking 425 was too bulky? i mean it was the biggest gun on the rack, thick compared to the 2 berettas on either side. im no giant - just have long forearms. do you think the bulk will hamper my shooting.
will try to try more lincolns. btw mays said that the only out of production they couldnot warantee was a laurona. (i didnt mention all the guns i saw.) said nikko, citori wasnt a problem for their gunsmithj.

from what little comparisons i have done, £700-750 ( i hope to do some bargaining) seems to be a F.A.I.rizzini price for a 425. yes?

[shooter]

grumpy is it ok for me to paste your advice on how to inspect a second hand shotgun in this thread for the sake of completion?

[Grumpy]

Sorry Dev, we were away from late Saturday afternoon until this evening.
If you want something durable for your friend get a Baikal.....pretty well anything other than the junk that`s taken his fancy.
Gold engraving for £300 ? Yeah, from Petticoat Lane.
"All that glisters is not gold".
- And there`s no engraving on an E.Rizzini either. The sideplates are stamped or cast. The cost of hand engraving a pair of sideplates with game scenes is CONSIDERABLY more than an E.Rizzini cost new.........more than the cost of a dozen of them.
425 Grade 1 has scrolls and the name `Browning` on the walls of the action.
The Citori had a bulkier action than the 325/425 of the time, weighed about 1/2lb more and had a shorter stock. 325s/425s/525s superficially look like B25s but don`t feel or handle like one. All B25s are hand made - even the basic A1. All 325/425/525s are machine made. A new 525 with `gold` birds is machine made and machine engraved. No B25 has machine engraving. Quality costs.
Brownings have a higher profile and feel a little bulkier than a Beretta but the weight is very similar. Which style you go for is down to personal preference. More than half the finalists in the Trap events at the last Olympics used Browning B25s - no Japanese made Brownings are used by top flight competitors..
The 525 replaced the 425 at least two years ago.....probably more. The 325 was introduced 1988 and replaced by the 425 in 1995. The Citori was introduced in 1973.

[Sakobav]

shooter

New shotgun I like it and I am in process of breaking it in. Its embarrassing on shooting line when gun barrel doesn’t break for loading and its tiring, which in turn impacts your concentration and scores ( I am not a great shot anyway). I have the gun little lubed now and took Grumpy’s advise on opening and closing the barrel just to loosen it up. Per some posting on other forums it can take anywhere between 100 to 200 shots to make this tight closing and open action smooth.

With used gun, one doesnt have to go through all this. rest its all circumstances whether to buy a new or used gun.

Cheers

[shooter]

thanks ngrewal,
ill be buying a second hand piece this time so i dont pay for the depreciation.
im sure of that.
hopefully, ill buy something this weekend.
will post pics soon.

[shooter]

"quality costs"
i dont agree- i get quality advice form you- free of cost.

thanks for the info grumpy.
grumpy i was told i could get the gun fitted for approx.£100.
is it true/ needed at my stage?
cheers.

may i post your reply(with quotes) here fore sake of completion.( plz refer to my last post.)?

[Grumpy]

Yup, fitting costs around £100-150 - usually more towards the second figure. Shortening/lengthening a little isn`t expensive, it`s bending the stock to cast on or off that costs.
Worthwhile ? I should say so. Fitting can make a remarkable difference to your ability to shoot well with a particular gun.

[shooter]

thanks
can they adjust the drop, ?
how?
by bending?
what about comb height? can/how do they change it?
claudio (coach at a1 shooting ground)
told me i should get a gun with an extendable 15 inch stock, when i told him about my long hands.
did he mean adjustable stock?

[Grumpy]

You can bend the stock up and down a little but the comb can also be raised by adding a stick-on foam pad, by cutting the comb off and adding a higher piece or by having an adjustable height kit fitted.
The stock can be shortened by cutting or lengthened by adding a piece - of timber or plastic - or by fitting an adjustable butt kit.
So extending a stock to 15" will compensate for long hands or fingers ? Oh yeah ? That would be a really good trick. Lengthening or shortening a stock makes no difference whatsoever if one has long hands/fingers......or short ones. Think about it.

[shooter]

sorry my mistake.
plz read long arms and forearms.
he said extendable 15" stock.(??)

[Grumpy]

Here`s an adjustable comb and butt. The Butt plate is a Graco - this model doesn`t seem to be imported any more but the version with a recoil reducer built in - the `GraCoil` - is £189 plus fitting.