Public Petition To Supreme Court - Suggestions

[crashandrise]

Was randomly talking to my friends in the States, and their laws made me feel so jealous. I dont see a reason why gun control is so strict in India when arms do more good than bad.

Was being told about the increase in crimes, but doesnt a sword in hand keep another in the sheath? IMO people will grow mature in terms of respecting life when they are exposed to greater freedom and power. The people who feel the need to kill and commit crime source gun from anywhere regardless of the gun laws. Not that the gun laws have helped a cent in curbing crime, not at all. Not that anti social elements find it difficult to source guns (Looking at the number of people yielding countrymade guns in villages). I wish we could gather everyone around, maybe will take some time and patience. Indian laws have so many shortcomings, not just talking about arms, I'm saying as a whole. Sadly, the British laws which were meant to demean the Indian citizens are still lying around without the Government taking note of it that they are actually making people feel suppressed.

[Life is Beautiful]

Count me in for the PIL. Also do clarify if any individual contribution (monetary/ signature or otherwise) from the members or people "in for" the cause is expected in support of the cause...which is quite welcome by me.

[captrakshitsharma]

Good effort Surojit pls get in touch with me my number is on the NAGRI site. IFG is lobbying very strongly . Have had number of meetings with the right authorities last one being 3 weeks back. As matters like this need time and patience with the official red tape please be patient and hope for results to show in the due course. It's a long and hard battle.

[ankur_ank007]

Please count me in for the PIL.

Count me in for the PIL. Also do clarify if any individual contribution (monetary/ signature or otherwise) from the members or people "in for" the cause is expected in support of the cause...which is quite welcome by me.

Count me in too...

[ankur_ank007]

Dear Learned Friends,

Just for the sake of argument can we file an RTI asking for the information of How many police and government armed forces have been charged for violent crimes such as Rape, Murder, Attempt to murder etc. in last 5-10 years and back our argument with the fact that in case if an armed people appointed by government tries to violate the basic fundamental rights of an Indian citizen to live and to live with honour, dignity and without any injury, what can be an alternative means of self protection other than a licensed weapon in the hand of a law abiding citizen.

I only want to say that always politicians say that more licenced weapon in the society will lead to more violent crimes including the crimes in fits of fury, this can also be with an armed policeman etc in the effect of alcohol or in the vigor of power.

[ankur_ank007]

Please count me in for the PIL.

Count me in for the PIL. Also do clarify if any individual contribution (monetary/ signature or otherwise) from the members or people "in for" the cause is expected in support of the cause...which is quite welcome by me.

Count me in too...

RTI Filed with MHA today morning. Details of the application are:
Registration Number MHOME/R/2015/60087
Name xxxxxxxxx
Date of Filing 10-01-2015
RTI Fee Received 10
Payment Mode Credit or Debit Card
Payment Reference Number
Transaction Status Transaction Successful
Request filed with Ministry of Home Affairs
Telephone Number 23093178
Email Id [email protected]

The content of the RTI are as follows:

Dear Sir,

It is requested to provide the following information under the RTI Act, 2005.
(1) Details of information required
(a) Subject matter and details of information required in the form of questions which should be specific.
Q. No. 1 - How many police officers, police personnel, home guard servicemen and Central Bureau of Investigation have been charged with serious violent crimes including Rape, Murder, Homicide, Attempt to Murder, Sexual Assault. Unlawful forced entry in someone’s private property with criminal intentions and
Q. No. 2 - Out of the service personnel charged with such crimes, how were on duty while perpetrating these crimes as mentioned in Question no. 1 and 2.
Q. No. 3 - How many of these people were found guilty of these charges and were successfully convicted.
Q. No. 4 - In how many cases out of the cases as being referred in from Q. no. 1 to Q. no. 3, the convicted/accused used his/her service weapon while perpetrating the crimes.
(b) Period for which information is sought- 01 January 1959 to 31 December 2014


In case the information is held by or related to another public authority, the application or such part of it as may be, appropriate may be transferred to that other public authority under intimation to the undersigned as per Section 6(3) of RTI Act.
Regards,
xxxxxxx

[goodboy_mentor]

I disagree with various points raised by Sourojit from legal perspective because they are self defeating and needless. For example needlessly asking for caliber restriction when it does not really exist.

We need to understand that in present form of Arms Act 1959 and its Rules, there is no obstacle to the government to issue license for any kind of gun. But actually the licenses are not issued because of some of its vague clauses. They allow the licensing authority to keep sitting indefinitely or arbitrarily reject applications. This vagueness and arbitrariness needs to be removed from Arms Act. Everything needs to be decided in a time bound manner.

[nagarifle]

I disagree with various points raised by Sourojit from legal perspective because they are self defeating and needless. For example needlessly asking for caliber restriction when it does not really exist.

We need to understand that in present form of Arms Act 1959 and its Rules, there is no obstacle to the government to issue license for any kind of gun. But actually the licenses are not issued because of some of its vague clauses. They allow the licensing authority to keep sitting indefinitely or arbitrarily reject applications. This vagueness and arbitrariness needs to be removed from Arms Act. Everything needs to be decided in a time bound manner.

hard to support when asking the wrong authority and they will throw the case out after the 1st hearing. if they accept it in the first place

[TC]

This vagueness and arbitrariness needs to be removed from Arms Act. Everything needs to be decided in a time bound manner.

Completely agree AGN.
And yet there is a government order that clearly says the police and local authorities have to complete the inquiry into an applicant's background and file a report within 45 days or else face action !!

Here it is. See Clause ii c. There has been no change or amendment to this. Even in 2013 the MHO issued the same order with just a new covering letter.


File no. F.13 (44)/2007/HG
GOVERNMENT OF NATIONAL CAPITAL TERRITORY OF DELHI
HOME (GENERAL) DEPARTMENT
5TH LEVEL, DELHI SECRETARIAT, I.P.ESTATE, DELHI 110002


ORDER


The competent authority in pursuance of instructions issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs vide letter No.v-11016/16/2009-Arms dated 31-3-2010 (Copy enclosed) and in supersession of all existing instructions , has approved the following instructions to be followed. However as for the criterion / details of documentary evidence required to be submitted by the applicant for extension of area validity of NPB arm licence from Delhi to All India/ Adjoining States a separate order is being issued with the approval of competent authority:-

INSTRUCTIONS


1. GRANT OF ARM LICENCE FOR PROHIBITORY BORE (PB) WEAPONS.

The arms licences for acquisition of PB weapons are considered by the Central Government in the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). It has been decided by the Ministry of Home Affairs that henceforth applications for grant of PB weapon may be considered from the following category of persons:-
a) Those persons who face grave and imminent threat to their lives by mere reason of being residents of a geographical area (or areas) where terrorist are most active and/or are held to be prime ‘target’ in the eyes of terrorist and/ or are known to be inimical to the aims and objects of the terrorists and as such face danger to their lives.
b) Those government officials who by virtue of the office occupied by them and/ or the nature of duties performed by them and / or in due discharge of their official duty have made themselves targets in the eyes of terrorists and are vulnerable to terrorist attack.
c) Those MPs and MLAs including non-officials/private persons who by virtue of having been closely and/or actively associated with anti-terrorist programmers and policies of the government or by mere reason of their holding views , political or otherwise, not to the liking of the terrorists, have rendered themselves open to attack by the terrorists.

d) The family members / kith and kin of those who by the very nature of their duties or performance (Past or present) or position occupied in the government (Past or present) or even otherwise for known/unknown reasons have been rendered vulnerable and have come to be regarded by the terrorists as fit targets for elimination.
Accordingly, it has been requested that applications for grant of PB weapons from the above categories of persons may be forwarded to Ministry of Home Affairs (Arms section) along with the recommendation of the DM concerned, recommendation of the State government and police verification.
ii. GRANT OF ARMS LICENCE FOR NON-PROHIBITED BORE (NPB) WEAPONS.

The Arms Licences for acquisition of NPB weapons are considered by the State Government/DM concerned. It has been decided that:-
a) Application for grant of NPB arms licences may be considered from persons who may face or perceive grave and imminent threat to their lives, for which the licensing authority will obtain an assessment of the threat faced by the persons from the police authorities.




b) No licence may be granted without police verification, which will include report on i) antecedents of the applicant, ii) assessment of the threat, iii) capability of the applicant to handle arms, and iv) any other information which the police authority might consider relevant for the grant or refusal of licence. Further that the steps are being taken by Ministry of Home Affairs to delete the proviso to Sec. 13 (2A) of the Arms Act, 1959.
c) The Police authorities may be advised to send the Police report within 45 days positively falling which the Police officials concerned may be liable for action.
d) The licensing authority may call for any information/documents such has Voter ID card, ration card or any other document which it may consider necessary to verify the bonafides of the applicant and to ensure that the applicant resides within its jurisdiction.
e) The licensing authority shall be obliged to take into account the report of police authorities called for under section 13(2) before granting arms licenses and no arms licence may be issued without police verification.
(iii) Grant of Licences under family heirloom policy.
Attention has been invited to the instructions contained in MHA’s letter no. V-11019/23/95-Arms dated 28-02-1995 regarding grant of licences to the legal heir of the existing licensee, after the death of the licensee or the licensee has attained the age of 70 years or had held the weapon for 25 years or more. Normally, the scope of legal heirs is extended to husband, wife, son and daughter. It has been decided to extend the scope of legal heir ship to the son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother and sister of the existing licensee. Accordingly, the applications for transfer of weapons from the said categories of relatives of the licensee may also be considered subject to other conditions stipulated in the said letter.

iv. Quantity of ammunition.

At present, the holder of a PB arms licence is allowed to purchase 50 cartridges of ammunition of the appropriate bore per annum subject to the condition that not more than 30 cartridges can be purchased at a time. In respect of NPB weapons, the State Governments are following different norms and allowing different quantities of ammunition. It has been decided to prescribe a uniform norm and allow 50 cartridges of the appropriate bore per annum in respect of PB and NPB weapons held by a licensee. However, in respect of PB and NPB weapons allowed under the family heirloom policy, the quantity of ammunition will be restricted to 30 cartridges per annum since, ordinarily, there is no threat to the legal heir and the weapon is transferred to him on sentimental grounds. A higher quantity of ammunition will be allowable on merits in exceptional cases, for good and sufficient reasons to be given by the licensee, with the approval of Secretary (Home Department) of the State concerned.
v. Reporting use of ammunition

It has also been decided that every State Government may prescribe reporting on use of ammunition by the licensee and devise a reporting mechanism under which each licensee may keep a record of the use of ammunition with him such as (i) date of use, (ii) Place, (iii) number of bullets fired, and (iv) purpose. The licensee shall report use of ammunition during the previous year before purchase of ammunition in the current year to the authority concerned as per procedure to be prescribed by the Stated Government. Thus, the quantity of ammunition in a year shall be limited to the use of the ammunition in the previous year so that the total quantity with a licensee shall not exceed the prescribed quantity at any time. For example, if a licensee under the threat perception category had not used any ammunition in the previous year against the quota of 50 cartridges, no fresh quota for the current year will be admissible. The State Governments may issue appropriate instructions to the licensees and all the arms dealers in the State in this regard. A report on the use of ammunition by licensees may be sent by each DM to the State Government concerned on a quarterly basis and a consolidated report may be sent by the State Government to Ministry of Home Affairs on an annual basis.

vi. Grant of arms licence to Overseas Citizens of India (OCI)

The existing instructions for the category of family heirloom do not cover the Overseas Citizens of India (OCIs). Requests have been received from OCIs to grant arms licenses for possession of weapons held in the family. The issue has been examined and it has been decided to cover the OCIs under the family heirloom category already in vogue for Indian citizens. An OCI may acquire the weapon in his capacity of a legal heir under the extant heirloom category. Grant of arms license to OCIs will be subject to the condition that they shall abide by the Arms Act/Rules and ensure safe custody of the weapon(s) while leaving India and deposit the same in a police station or with an approved arms dealer.

vii. Area validity of arms licence

At present, powers have been delegated to the State Government for allowing all India validity of NPB licences at their level. It has been decided by Ministry of Home Affairs that the State Governments may allow area validity up to a maximum of three adjoining States and also to consider A/V requests at State level for (i) sitting Union Ministers/MPs, (ii) Personnel of Military, Para Military, (iii) Officers of All-India Services and (iv) officers with liability to serve anywhere in India, and (v) Sports persons. Area validity may be allowed for 3 years, after which it shall be reconsidered by the State Government based on need and the area validity can be either reduced or allowed to continue for another three years. Request from above categories of applicants may be approved at the level of Secretary (Home) of the State concerned. In the cases of applicants not covered by the above categories, the State Government shall seek prior concurrence of Ministry of Home Affairs with full justification in deserving cases. All India Validity may be allowed for three years in such cases and shall be re-considered after three years by the Stated Government with prior concurrence of Ministry of Home Affairs. The State Government may send data of All-India validity on quarterly basis to Ministry of Home Affairs.

viii) Renewal of arms licences.

It has been decided that, at the time of renewal, re-verification of antecedents may be done by the DM/Licensing Authorities through police authorities (i) in cases where DM/Licensing Authorities have any doubt, (ii) in other cases, after six years i.e. every alternate cycle, when the licence comes up for renewal, and (iii) in all those cases where the licence has been issued by another licensing authority. In the last mentioned case, verification of the issue of licence from the issuing authority may also be stipulated along with police verification, before allowing renewal. Police authorities will be allowed a period of 60 days to send their report. It is also requested by Ministry of Home Affairs that the State Govt. may check the feasibility of advising all DMs/ Licensing authorities to initiate the process of seeking police re-verification six months in advance, as the full record of a licensee is available with the DMs/ Licensing authority .







IX. Replacement of unserviceable/defective weapons.

Replacement of a weapon which has become unserviceable or rendered defective may be allowed on the basis of a certificate of non-serviceability of the weapon/beyond economical repair from an authorized armourer/competent authority subject to giving a notice of not less than 45 days. In the case of a licensee whose arms licence contains a prohibitive clause for sale of weapon during the life time of the licensee (normally in the case of imported weapon), the case will be considered for replacement by the licensing authority in consultation with the Department of Customs/Department of Revenue, on production of non-serviceability/beyond economical repair certificate from the competent authority. The new weapon will be endorsed on the licence after the old weapon has been surrendered/disposed of as per instructions of the licensing authority.

X) Storage /disposal of obsolete, obsolescent, confiscated seized and recovered weapons.

Instructions are in place for storage and disposal of obsolete/obsolescent, confiscated, seized/recovered prohibited bore weapons as well as non prohibited bore weapons separately. Prohibited bore weapons which are serviceable can be allotted to Army/ central para military Force/ State Police by Ministry of Home Affairs (provisioning division). Serviceable non-propitiatory bore weapons can be allotted to eligible persons having arm licences subject to the conditions and procedure laid down in that behalf. Unserviceable weapons shall be destroyed or disposed of as per the procedure laid down, it has been decided to prescribe annual audit of the obsolete, obsolescent, confiscated, seized and recovered weapons.



XI) Data base for licences issued.

At present there is no provision requiring a licensing authority to maintain a comprehensive and complete database of all licences issued. It has been decided to maintain a database as may be specified and to share the data with the Central Government which shall maintain a national database. National database including data on PB weapons may be maintained centrally by Ministry of Home Affairs. Accordingly, instructions may be issued to all the DMs/ Licensing authorities to maintain a comprehensive and complete data base of all licence issued by them, which may be shared with Central Govt.

The above instruction have been ordered to come into force with immediate effect and to be complied with strictly.


(G.L.MEENA)
ADDL. SECRETARY: HOME
File no. F.13 (44)/2007/HG Dated:-
Copy to:-

1. The Addl.C.P/Lic, Ist Floor, Police Station- Defence Colony, Delhi
2. OSD to Hon`ble L.G. Raj Niwas, Delhi.
3. Joint Secretary (Arms Division), Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India, 9th Lok Nayak Bhawan, Khan Market, New Delhi w.r.t his letter no. V-11016/16/2009-Arms dated 31-3-2010.
4. Under Secretary (Arms Division), Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India, 9th Lok Nayak Bhawan, Khan Market, New Delhi.
5. PS to L.G. Raj Niwas, Delhi
6. PS to Chief Secretary, GNCT of Delhi, Delhi Sectt., Delhi
7. PS to Pr. Secretary (Home), GNCT of Delhi
8. PS to Commissioner of Police, Police Head Quarter, ITO, Delhi


ADDL. SECRETARY (HOME)

[goodboy_mentor]

TC, the above order mentioned by you is just an executive order. It has no legal value under Arms Act 1959 or its Rules. The executive branch may or may not listen to it.

The Arms Act as it is today, stands vague in some of its clauses and with over delegation of powers to the executive. Hence the arbitrariness due to over delegation of powers. This is the crux of the problem.

[TC]

AGN I am aware of that and suffer every time.
This is a pointer to the fact that time-bound inquiry is not something that cannot be done in India.


TC

[ankur_ank007]

AGN I am aware of that and suffer every time.
This is a pointer to the fact that time-bound inquiry is not something that cannot be done in India.


TC

I sneaked into a Pakistani Gun Forum today... they talk quite often about India.... I am surprised to read one of the Paki wrote "Indian arms act is a blessing for us. In case our armies/fighters infiltrate Indian territories somehow or if in a course of war if Indian first line of defense is neutralized; thanks to Indian Arms Act 1959, they don't have a second line of defense. The NCC in India is just an extra curricular activity in colleges or a ladder only to get closer to the government gobs"

Can we go ahead an write to Honorable Mr. Prime Minister about this? I mean he may find the Indian Arms Act 1959 as old and irrelevant as he found the Planning Commission and RTO?

[TC]

Nice thought Ankur,
About writing to the Prime Minister I mean. But do you really think that he and his cabinet colleagues are not ware of the archival value of the Indian Arms Act ? Before becoming Prime Minister he was chief minister for a long time, and that of a state where getting gun licence is just as difficult, if not more, as any other state.

I appreciate your optimism nonetheless.


TC

[goodboy_mentor]

If not anything else, Arms Act is a political tool to frame political opponents in false criminal cases under Arms Act. Just plant a cartridge or any cheap gun. Here you go, place the person behind bars to "fix" him "legally". The law takes its course!

[ankur_ank007]

Nice thought Ankur,
About writing to the Prime Minister I mean. But do you really think that he and his cabinet colleagues are not ware of the archival value of the Indian Arms Act ? Before becoming Prime Minister he was chief minister for a long time, and that of a state where getting gun licence is just as difficult, if not more, as any other state.

I appreciate your optimism nonetheless.


TC

Nice thought Ankur,
About writing to the Prime Minister I mean. But do you really think that he and his cabinet colleagues are not ware of the archival value of the Indian Arms Act ? Before becoming Prime Minister he was chief minister for a long time, and that of a state where getting gun licence is just as difficult, if not more, as any other state.

I appreciate your optimism nonetheless.


TC

Dear Sir,

Thanks for raising the point. May be we have never tried to draw his attention to this point. At Least we can try. Constitution have safeguarder this right atleast "Right to try", by applying to babus, by appealing to courts and so on.....

The basic question raised by the supporters of gun controls are as follows along with my comments:

1. More guns in the society will lead to more crimes:- Here we are concerned about only legal licenced weapon held by law abiding citizens. We can file an RTI to NCRB or MHA to get data about total no. of crimes committed utilizing firearms, and out of all of them how many were perpetrated using licenced weapon by the licence holder in any circumstances. Criminals scheming to perpetrate crime never apply for licences, wait for police clearance, buy legal weapon and perpetrate the crime, they just do criminal acts, they can acquire weapon from anywhere.

2. A licensed weapon holder is also vulnerable to commit crimes in fits of fury or in a provocative situation and easily available weapon in the society will lead to increased no. of such crimes:- Here, the police personnel and other security people are also armed with deadly firearms issued by the government of India, do all of them hold certificates issued by them that in there whole service time they will never lose their cool and perpetrate an act out of legal boundaries? I mean they are also human being and they can cool their loose or they can shoot someone accidently. However this doesn't happen often because they are well trained, so do a civilian can be trained. This is something like depriving a normal human being of fire as fire can burn or water as water can drown. Nonetheless the people responsible for our security also perpetrate crimes using their service weapon. How can we forget Dehradun Fake encounter, or Extra Judicial Killings that we read every now and then in newspapers.We can file an RTI to know how many of Govt. security force personnels and Law Enforcement personnels are charged with violent crimes which were perpetrated using firearms.

3. Why run rights is of much importance when we have the third largest militia and every state has a dedicated police and other law enforcement agencies? :- We do have a very advanced and one of the largest militia but what about the second line of defence in the scenario of crises. God forbid in case our militia is neutralized then is our civil society armed enough to maintain their independence? Are we armed enough, if enemy's militia is airlifted and dropped into our territories (rural as well as urban) and our first line of defence is engaged in a combat on a different front, we can defend our independence and rights?

4. Why do I call gun control illegal?:- The American Constitution was so well drafted that it acts like a role model for the constitutions of most of the countries. The bill of rights in the national archives declared the fundamental rights of a human being for the first time on such a strong platform. We also copied the same charter and bill to empower our citizens when the constitution of India was being drafted but because of colonial influence, existing Gun Control Laws and the indifference and less sensitivity of our leaders deprived us of our basic right to defend our lives and properties. If you tell me to remain unarmed by laws and call police if a crime is being perpetrated, god forbid, one day, when some criminals break into my house and try to rob my house or try to dishonour the female members of my family, I am helpless, unarmed and violated, because you have given me the right to protect myself but you have not empowered me to do so. If you tell me to let the crime happen, wait for the police, you have mocked me by writing the article-21 and article-19 of Indian Constitution.
Article 19(1)b states "All citizens shall have the right- to assemble peaceably and without arms", it automatically states that all citizens have to bear and keep arms (however lawfully with some restrictions to maintain the sovereignty of the country). The interpreters of constitution who call themselves as learned persons who have themselves taken responsibility to protect us, have neglected this interpretation.


I rest my case......