More than half of USA now favors RKBA over controls

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

Thanks xl_target for the clarification on Gun Control in the US....I stand educated!
As I understand if a US citizen can establish his / her credentials & pass the scrutiny by the authorities then he / she can buy, own & keep more than one fire arm....
Compared to this in India even after establishing one's credentials & scrutiny by concerned authorities, the chances of being refused a licence to buy & own a firearm weighs heavily against the applicant....
Briha

His post might have been a little confusing. You can buy a firearm off the shelf of a gunstore, you fill out a form and they make a call to NICS for a background check as he said. Normally it's a five to ten minute matter from the time you say, "I'll take it."

However, that only applies to a gun store. You can buy and sell handguns and rifles between private citizens any time or place in most states. No ID, no forms, no records, no background checks. I disagree that only a few private purchases occur. People buy and sell guns to each other all the time.

^Everything I just said is all you need to know in most states.

And all that gun license, pistol permit, and assault weapons ban stuff only applies to a handful of states. There are no such US laws, and most states don't have those laws either.

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

As far as gun shows in the USA are concerned, it appears that you've never bought a gun at one, otherwise you'd know that they check your ID, make you fill out the form, and check you out with the FBI, just like at the gun shop -- all as XL has already laid out.

That only applies to guns bought from gun dealers. Laws are not different at gun shows than anywhere else. You can buy and sell guns privately at gun shows just like you can anywhere. I've done it. That's why when you see pictures from a US gun show there are guys walking around with For Sale signs or rifles with flags sticking out of the barrels saying "For Sale" or with a price on them. They are advertising to other private show attendees.

Buying and selling guns within the civilian population is no more regulated than buying and selling used alarm clocks. You just can't do it for a living without becoming a gun dealer, or do it across state lines (interstate) without involving a dealer.

[TwoRivers]

... Also, when a gun is bought from an FFL, the background check is done not only on the individual but also the gun itself (if it was ever used in a crime). Now I am in favor of Gunshows, however, I am not in favor of illegals getting guns or the Government illegally collecting data on Gun owners. ...Anand

Not so. The question asked during the check is "long arm or handgun?". The serial number is on the form,along with other information about the gun, but it is not asked for. After all, they would have to have the gun in order to know its serial number, and that it was used in a crime.

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

Just to clarify/add to Two Rivers' point, this "form" when you choose to buy a gun from a gun dealer does not go to the government. It stays with the dealer.

The background check is not a registration process, they ask your name and if you are buying a handgun or rifle. If your name is too close to the name of a person that is a criminal, they may ask for more information to try to clear it up. You see, they do not have a list with your name on it, there is no Nice List, there is no approved list, because there is no approval process. They only have the Naughty List, the list with all the bad guys' names. They are not trying to determine who you are, simply who you aren't.

It's basically the opposite of a gun owner licensing system. And, again, it only applies if you buy from a gun dealer.

[xl_target]

Thanks xl_target for the clarification on Gun Control in the US....I stand educated!
As I understand if a US citizen can establish his / her credentials & pass the scrutiny by the authorities then he / she can buy, own & keep more than one fire arm....
Compared to this in India even after establishing one's credentials & scrutiny by concerned authorities, the chances of being refused a licence to buy & own a firearm weighs heavily against the applicant....
Briha

His post might have been a little confusing. You can buy a firearm off the shelf of a gunstore, you fill out a form and they make a call to NICS for a background check as he said. Normally it's a five to ten minute matter from the time you say, "I'll take it."

However, that only applies to a gun store. You can buy and sell handguns and rifles between private citizens any time or place in most states. No ID, no forms, no records, no background checks. I disagree that only a few private purchases occur. People buy and sell guns to each other all the time.

^Everything I just said is all you need to know in most states.

And all that gun license, pistol permit, and assault weapons ban stuff only applies to a handful of states. There are no such US laws, and most states don't have those laws either.

Hmm! I thought I made that clear:

Now we have a procedure that varies from state to state.

Compared to the number of sales that take place between an individual and an FFL, the number of private sales that occur between individuals (and I'm not talking about illegal sales to felons) is a fraction of the percentage of total sales. While there are individual sales, each person making those sales doesn't move that many per year. If any individual makes a habit of selling large numbers of firearms, he is going to get a knock on the door pretty soon.

[xl_target]

[
And all that gun license, pistol permit, and assault weapons ban stuff only applies to a handful of states. There are no such US laws, and most states don't have those laws either.

There is no federal Assault weapons ban anymore but it did exist and expired a few years ago.

However, there are such things as federal laws that apply to all states.

A deny message from the NICS indicates the subject of the background check has been matched with a similar name and/or similar descriptive information of a record containing a state law prohibition or the following federally prohibitive criteria:

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(1)
Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a termexceeding one year

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(2)
Is a fugitive from justice

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(4)
Has been adjudicated as a mental defectiveor committed to a mental institution

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(5)
Is Illegally or unlawfully in the United States

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(6)
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(7)
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(8)
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(9)
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

18 U.S.C. §922
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

link

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

Hmm! I thought I made that clear:

Now we have a procedure that varies from state to state.

It was not a criticism, when I read it I thought people from another country might not discern it. That is not a procedure that varies from state to state, it is a procedure in almost no states. That's why I wanted to clarify.

Compared to the number of sales that take place between an individual and an FFL, the number of private sales that occur between individuals (and I'm not talking about illegal sales to felons) is a fraction of the percentage of total sales. While there are individual sales, each person making those sales doesn't move that many per year. If any individual makes a habit of selling large numbers of firearms, he is going to get a knock on the door pretty soon.

What data do you base that on? I don't think such data exists. Many people I know have bought more guns privately than at gun shops.

Also, it is untrue that if you by and sell a lot of guns you will get a "knock on the door." I know people that sell dozens of guns a year and never gotten such a knock. It's very common among collectors and enthusiasts that buy stuff, get tired of it, or are required to move stuff in and out of the house due to budget or demands of the wife There is nothing illegal about buying and selling lots of guns a year privately. ATF tends to look for people that advertise and sell the same guns over and over again - as in, "restocking," or otherwise obviously making a business out of it by repeatedly buying guns and selling them quickly at a profit. And, you would have to advertise publicly for them to even have any idea.

Based on some of your comments I have concluded you live in one of two states, either NY or NJ. In either state you need licenses to purchase a gun at all, so I assume these are things you really don't have a lot of experience with, unlike the nation at large.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just think you are a little off base and I wanted to give my opinion on the subject.

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

[
And all that gun license, pistol permit, and assault weapons ban stuff only applies to a handful of states. There are no such US laws, and most states don't have those laws either.

There is no federal Assault weapons ban anymore but it did exist and expired a few years ago.

However, there are such things as federal laws that apply to all states.

A deny message from the NICS indicates the subject of the background check has been matched with a similar name and/or similar descriptive information of a record containing a state law prohibition or the following federally prohibitive criteria:

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(1)
Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a termexceeding one year

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(2)
Is a fugitive from justice

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(4)
Has been adjudicated as a mental defectiveor committed to a mental institution

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(5)
Is Illegally or unlawfully in the United States

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(6)
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(7)
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(8)
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner

18 U.S.C. §922 (g)(9)
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

18 U.S.C. §922
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

link

Those are not gun license, pistol permit, and assault weapons ban stuff. I'm not sure what point you are making in response to me?

I buy and sell guns between me and my friends without any licenses, permits, IDs, or background checks. Most of the US is the same. Your state has gun licenses, pistol permits, and assault weapons ban stuff.

[xl_target]

What data do you base that on? I don't think such data exists. Many people I know have bought more guns privately than at gun shops.

As far as I know there is no data for this. I base this on personal experience.
I don't sell many of the guns that I have bought and most of the friends that I shoot with don't either. It does happen and I have bought guns from an individual but the vast majority of the guns that I and most of my friends have purchased (new or used0 have been from stores.
I do see privately held guns sold at gun shows but it isn't that high a number compared to the guns that I have observed being bought from dealers, at those shows.

Those are not gun license, pistol permit, and assault weapons ban stuff. I'm not sure what point you are making in response to me?

I buy and sell guns between me and my friends without any licenses, permits, IDs, or background checks. Most of the US is the same. Your state has gun licenses, pistol permits, and assault weapons ban stuff.

..and no I do not live in NY or NJ and no, we do not need a license to own a firearm and we do not have an assault weapons ban. I don't believe I said that.
I live in Minnesota and we do, like most states, need a permit to carry a pistol,on your person, in public places. That is the pistol permit that I am talking about. Our carry permit is called a "permit to carry a pistol" and does not specify concealed or open. Maybe that is what you are confusing with a permit to own a pistol.


I am trying to get across, to people in India, some semblance of the laws in the US. I am also trying to get across that there are certain federal gun laws that govern all states.

I also want to get across that some states do require a permit or license to purchase all firearms and some states require a permit or licence to puchase a handgun:s

Permit to purchase firearms:
CA, CT, DC, Hawaii, Il, MA, NJ

Permit to purchase a handgun:
IA, MA, MD, MI, NE, NY, NC, RI

I am trying to dispell that notion, held in many other countries and often propagated by the media, that anyone can walk into any place in the USA and just purchase a firearm without any kind of checks or hinderances. This is also the justification that many gun banners use to convince people, who are not aware of current regulations, that new and more stringent regulations are needed.

[xl_target]

Given that there are 200 million firearms in private hands,

Bennedose, this is not a criticism, just a correction.
According to the NICS records, there were 200 million+(200,226,838) NICS checks just between November 1998 and November 2014.
This only takes into account the number of checks called in by gun stores between that time period. Usually one per firearm but it could have been multiple firearms if the buyer is purchasing more than one at at time.

The NICS disclaimer

NOTE:
These statistics represent the number of firearm background checks initiated through the NICS. They do not represent the number of
firearms sold. Based on varying state laws and purchase scenarios, a one-to-one correlation cannot be made between a firearm
background check and a firearm sale

Link

[ckkalyan]

Tch, tch, tch - we Indians must surely endevaour to catch up with our cousins in the United States....we have only 40 million (please feel to correct me if I am wrong - only if the figure is higher - please ) and they have 200 million? WOW!

Having blown off / ranted - I have no idea why I am spouting these Indian figures (substantiated only from the media) since the topic is:

More than half of USA now favors RKBA over controls

Why are we talking gun ownership numbers? I must be dumb!