7mm luger

[Godara]

nd if I find one hw much its worth because its1 time m buying a handgun

[Kittu]

I want to buy a luger pistol in 7mm but most of them are 9mm converted to 7 I m looking for the original swiss made manufactured before 1908 but they didnt print year those day so some body help me find the marking of an orignal swiss made lugar or should I go with dmw ones

Hi godara
from your first post it seemed like you have a truck loaded full off lugers from which you have to choose swiss made that too which was made beyond 1908.

[Godara]

somebody suggested me to go for cz 52 he says its even better than .30 lugar

[Grumpy]

The P08 ( and Swiss 0P00 ) were chambered for the 7.65x21 Parabellum - and there were more P08s ( so-called `Lugers` ) chambered in 7.65x21 than were ever chambered in 9mm Parabellum. The chances of finding a P08 in 7.65x21 in India must be reasonable. It would be extremely unlikely that you`ld find a Swiss 0P00. The CZ52 is chambered in the 7.62x25 Tokarev - a considerably more powerful calbre than the 7.65x21 Para. I would imagine that it is easier to find a Tokarev TT-33 ( or one of the Chinese/Polish/Yugoslavian/Serbian copies ) in India than a CZ-52.

[Godara]

thanks grumpy can u tell me how much I should pay for these I mean the lugar or tt or cz 52

[Grumpy]

In India ? I have no idea. Too much - like just about all guns in India.
There are members who will be able to tell you what the going rate for a Tok TT-33 ( or one of the clones ) is however.

[timmy]

somebody suggested me to go for cz 52 he says its even better than .30 lugar

As Grumpy says, both the Czech CZ 52 and the Soviet/Polish/Chinese/etc. TT 33 are chambered in 7.62x25, and that is a very hot round. It has about the same power as a 9mm, but shoots a lighter, smaller bullet.

The CZ 52 is lighter, but a bit larger than a TT 33. It is made like a jewel and has a lot of little parts. It is very safe, having a rebounding hammer that operates a lot like a double action revolver, so the hammer cannot fall on a round in the chamber, and also there is a firing pin lock that requires the trigger to be pulled before the firing pin can fall. The action has a very slick roller locking mechanism, similar to the German WW2 MG42 machine gun. These guns have a dull Parkerized finish, which should be quite durable in a hot, humid climate. Two things against the CZ 52: the grip is at too much of a right angle, so you will instinctively shoot low with it. Also, the firing pin is brittle and you must never dry fire it, or you will be looking for a new firing pin. Replacements made of better steel can be had, but I don't know if you could get one in India. Other than that, they are (in my opinion, anyway) a very nice pistol. BTW, yes, I do have one. So you can carry these guns safely with a round in the chamber, uncocked. There is a decococking mechanism that will allow you to drop the hammer, supposedly safely, but I would never trust it.

The TT 33 is smaller, not much larger than the original Colt 1903 "Pocket Pistol" upon which the Ashani is based. The action is very similar to the 1911 Colt. The pistol is heavier than the CZ 52 because a lot of metal is left in the frame and slide, where the CZ 52 is machined out to save weight. Some are nicely finished and some are rough. The old Soviet ones can be nice, the Polish ones I've seen have a very nice finish, and some of the Chinese ones can be finished rather crudely. All are strong and serviceable, however. The TT 33 differs from the 1911 in the design, which is simplified to eliminate cost ands machining operations needed to make it. The hammer, sear, and mainspring are carried in a separate assembly that drops in the frame when the pistol is disassembled for quick repair in the field for military use. This assembly ingeniously includes built in feed lips, so that the magazine is less susceptible to feeding failures to to damage. In the history of these things, which came out in 1933 (there was a similar predecessor from 1930, the TT 30), Hungary made up a batch of TT 33s modified to shoot 9x19 for Egypt called M48, which, in the USA, is often called a "Tokagypt" ("Toka" for Tokarev, the designer, and "gypt" for Egypt). The Chinese took up this design as well. I have one of these. The bad points about the TT 33 are these: the grip, like the CZ 52, is at too much of a right angle, and they naturally point low. The worst thing is that you cannot carry them with a round in the chamber safely (unlike the CZ 52), so you either carry them with the danger of shooting yourself or others accidentally (there have been deaths in the USA because of this) or you carry them with the need to rack the slide and cycle the action before you can use the weapon. Finally, because the mainspring is small, it is a very heavy coil spring. This makes cocking the hammer manually or racking the slide more difficult. There are TT 33s and Tokagypts that have safeties. These were usually made for the American market to satisfy laws. One version of the safety is a lever behind the trigger, which blocks it. This kind was often added to surplus guns. Another type is located where the safety is on a 1911, but it only blocks the sear -- it doesn't block the hammer, like in the 1911 design. Neither safety is really safe. They were only added because of a stupid law. The original Soviet design, without a safety, is superior.

Having both, for a self defense or sporting gun, I would prefer the CZ 52, but both are good pistols, as long as you understand the limitations of these old designs. They are not a Sig or a Glock, by any means!

PS: I didn't realize that the TT 33 was/is used by Bangladesh.

[Kittu]

Hi Godara
its difficult to find cz 52 in india and if you find one you will have to pay lots of money.tt33 you can get in punjab but again 90% of tt33 are clone made in adam khel darra.chinese type 54 are also available but again these are nsp weapon and many dealer dont deal in them.You can also get in trouble if you buy nsp weapon.I will advise you not to buy 30 chinese or tt 33.price of 30 chinese pistol is around 6 lakhs.go for cz 52 if you find one rest is said by senior members thanks

[Godara]

and thr price of .30 lugar sir not swiss but any .30 luger

[Grumpy]

If a Chinese Type 51/Type 54 ( Tok TT-33 copy ) costs around 6 lakhs then I would imagine that a P08 ( `Luger` ) would be at least 12 lakhs - probably more - because it is an iconic design. The P08 is very well made but a nightmare to repair if you don`t have access to new parts and a GOOD gunsmith to fit them properly. They are also very intolerant of low pressure ammunition and will refuse to cycle properly if the ammo is at all `soft`.

[Kittu]

grumpy sir
its apposite here.7.65 luger will hardly sell for 1.50 lakhs because ammo is very hard to find.and ammo of 7.65 luger can cost above rs 1000 a pop.most dealer will not even understand if you ask them 7.65 luger.they will understand if you ask them little 30.2 years back 30 luger was offered to me for 1.25 lakhs
thanks

[Godara]

no problem for ammo I can manage I just want to buy the gun it will be the 1st item for my collection

[Godara]

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[Godara]

A year and half later still looking for my luger

[aadhaulya]

Can only wish you Good luck. How did you get the purchase period validity extended for so long??

Atul