Need Information on Procuring Sports Pistol

[RA.50]

Dear IFG Members,

I wish to know the exact procedure for procuring a .22 Standard Pistol(New) either a Walther / Pardini for sports purpose.

I have a valid arms licence (NPB) . Also, I am NOT a Renowned Shot.

Now, the reason for starting a new thread is I went through a couple of other threads and everywhere there is a mention of "Renowned Shot" Criteria which I am not as mentioned above. I wish to pursue this thread specially for non-renowned shot conditions for procuring a weapon for sport.

So,I am considering the below mentioned procedure or trying to find a new way out

Procedure 1 : Import it from the manufacturers,Direct?
Procedure 2 : Purchase it from Shop?
Procedure 3 : Is there any other procedure/Mode?

Q-1 ) Can I import it directly on my own? If Yes, Then How(steps) and How to calculate all the money involved other than a Pistol cost?
Q-2) If not then what is the next best option?

Point to be noted--> Not currently interested in pre-owned weapon

I tried my best to go through maximum threads/posts possible on IFG but in vain to find a clear cut answer to my Questions and hence this fresh thread.

I also tried Google and conclusion is ---> Good god even Google can be confusing sometimes

Require your inputs and suggestions as I am slowly trying to build up necessary documents / procedural steps for procurement

Your inputs are highly appreciated

Thank you

RA.50


P.S : Moderators, In case this thread is repeat request you to tag it to the existing thread and sorry for the inconvenience

[Anand]

Hi RA.50,
if you look through the import of arms thread in the Legal Section, you will notice that there are currently only two ways to import arms into India, one is if you are a renowned shooter,( which you are not, for now at least), and the other is if you are coming to India on a Transfer of Residence.
unfortunately for you the only way to practice would be use range guns, or those of other shooters and participate in competitions and become a renowned shooter or else, get a job abroad for a couple of years and return with a pistol of your choice.
Regards,
anand

[RA.50]

Hi Anand,

Thank you for your reply

Hi RA.50,
if you look through the import of arms thread in the Legal Section, you will notice that there are currently only two ways to import arms into India, one is if you are a renowned shooter,( which you are not, for now at least), and the other is if you are coming to India on a Transfer of Residence.
unfortunately for you the only way to practice would be use range guns, or those of other shooters and participate in competitions and become a renowned shooter or else, get a job abroad for a couple of years and return with a pistol of your choice.
Regards,
anand

1) So You mean I have no other way to import a New weapon?
2) What about the local retail shop? Can they be of any assistance?
3) What if I am ready to pay the customs/duty and then import, Possible?
4)Can somebody else returning from abroad get it on behalf of me,What about this possibility??
5) What if I show that a person from abroad is gifting me 1)

The only reason I am asking and evaluating all the possibilities is I got my licence done only for sports purpose.
So If its not sports pistol then my Licence will be useless(currently I do not need a weapon for Self Defense)

Thank you

RA.50

[Anand]

1.Thats what I am saying, no other way!
2.Even if they have what you are looking for it won't be cheap, and will likely be used.
3.Not applicable
4.No
5.No

If you are willing to compromise on the "used" aspect of your requirements, you will very likely find what you want, then after you become proficient and become a renowned shooter then import will be allowed to you in your given event.

In the mean while a lot of practice can be had with an air pistol such as a Steyr LP 10 or LP 50 costs about a 1.1 to 1.5 lacs .
Also get the kind of target pistol you seek from an existing renowned shooter who is willing to part with it, won't be cheap either but probably the better than getting it from a dealer( where you won't likely get the history of the pistol). Also, .22 pistols and rifle barrels don't generally wear out very soon unless they have been abused. So your best bet seems to be to get a used one.
Regards,
Anand

[RA.50]

Alright Anand,

Got answers straight for all my important questions and I am quite clear about new pistol purchase i.e not possible due to government restriction

Continuing,

If you are willing to compromise on the "used" aspect of your requirements, you will very likely find what you want, then after you become proficient and become a renowned shooter then import will be allowed to you in your given event.

In the mean while a lot of practice can be had with an air pistol such as a Steyr LP 10 or LP 50 costs about a 1.1 to 1.5 lacs .
Also get the kind of target pistol you seek from an existing renowned shooter who is willing to part with it, won't be cheap either but probably the better than getting it from a dealer( where you won't likely get the history of the pistol). Also, .22 pistols and rifle barrels don't generally wear out very soon unless they have been abused. So your best bet seems to be to get a used one.
Regards,
Anand

The only reason I was/am reluctant to try a Pre-Owned .22 pistol was/is

1) Prices are all time high for pre-owned and they cost as good as new (from what I have heard, Please correct me if I am wrong)

2) No guarantee from whoever I buy and local help like availability of service center / Gunsmiths to help and rectify any problem if and when it occurs is remote/not up to the mark
So, eventually I will have to send it to the manufacturer. (I might sound pessimist. But, I thought its good to consider these things before purchasing and also as I saw a fellow shooter struggle with his Pistol and he had a bad time getting local service help and though he qualified for a competition he could not participate as gun malfunctioned and no service availability)

3) your suggestion is a good one that I have come till date i.e to buy it from renowned shooters(considering it).

The option of dealer is ruled out now

And about Steyr LP10/ LP50 (for Practice) :

1) I think it will be double investment for me because assuming LP10 costs me 1,13,000 - 1,30,000
And in the meanwhile I will also have to keep the cash ready for .22 Pistol (don't know how much)

What do you think?

Further, In case If I get an Air pistol then what to do with the License which I have for .22(just asking as I need to get an gun registered on it within a specific time = government rule)

I am pretty much stuck at the moment I guess

Dear Anand / Mods, I know I have too many questions but thought I will ask it all
Hope you don't mind

With best regards,

RA.50

[Chandan22]

Hello,

Unfortunately there is really no way to import any weapon into India short of becoming a renowned shot. And even then there are restrictions about when and how they can sell those weapons and to whom.

I have recently started out in shooting and have been grappling with this problem for a while. This is how I understand one can go about procuring a sports pistol directly.
There is no escaping the requirement of becoming a renowned shot. So actually the question becomes how to become a renowned shot ?

Assuming you already have an arms licence

1. Using a proper .22 or .32 sports pistol
For this, either you find someone who is willing to loan you their weapon extensively for practise and participation, or you use the weapons apparently available at Karni Singh Range to practise. However, there are no weapons available at the range, atleast thats what the people there say. So you somehow get a weapon, buy ammo either from same person or if you're a DSRA/NRAI member, from them and practise away. And then participate and hope to qualify.

2. If you already have a licened weapon, even if its an IOF, you can still go ahead and practise and try to get the MQS. While this is decidedly much much more difficult, since these weapons are not really designed for accuracy, it is not impossible. However, I would assume the time/effort would go up five fold if not more.

If you don't have an arms licence

3. Procure an air pistol and practise and participate with it. While the competition is much more, it is easier to get access to a pistol and to practise. You can even practise in your own house. And then try to get good enough to get the MQS. A caveat here, I'm not sure whether being a renowned shot is category specific or not. So if you score MQS in Air category, does that allow you to import.

So on the face of it, its an almost herculean thing at this time.

I am currently going to apply for an arms licence this month probably. Also, I'm planning an RTI to Sports Authority of India to get status of weapons at Karni Singh. If the policy says there are to be weapons there for arms licence holders to use, why are they not available.

Later, once I have my licence, I also plan to file a PIL against this requirement for importing sports weapons. Obviously a more logical system can be put in place which allows genuine sportspersons to access weapons and ensure they don't become a mechanism for grey market sale or anything else.

Regards,
~Chandan

[farook]

Take my word for it if the Indian government eases down the import restrictions for sport shooters we India's would be bringing in a lot a more medals from ISSF events. I am facing the same issue. Thought I am able to find a few .22 target pistols they are in a bad bad state. Unlike self defense pistols which are sparingly used (many are never used ) a sport shooter would use his pistol extensively for weekend practice. Further as most ranges are open only on weekends and for cost of ammo, target pistols are dry fired almost everyday. This again does potential damage to the firing pin and chamber.

At this point of time the best option would be to buy a http://www.steyr.in/steyr-lp-10-e-silve ... 4bu630cti5 for about 150000, practice with it at home, on weekends you could use the pistols as available at the rifle association. if its beyond what you want to invest try a Baikal ( http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/IZH_46M_A ... igger/2690 ), its good enough for practice and costs around 50k. You need to be a member of your state/ district level rifle association to be able to import an air pistol.

Once you win a national event with a qualifying score, NRAI would issue you an import license. In the whole range of pistols the preferred one for most is Pardini SP1 RP ( http://www.pardini.it/weapon/target_pis ... d_Fire.asp ) its cost 2800 euro, shipping and customs extra.

[dev]

Now, a used Walther GSP Expert will now cost around 5 lakhs.
Was a time when they went for the buying price.
Sad but true.

[RA.50]

Hey Chandan,

Hello,

I have recently started out in shooting and have been grappling with this problem for a while. This is how I understand one can go about procuring a sports pistol directly.
There is no escaping the requirement of becoming a renowned shot. So actually the question becomes how to become a renowned shot ?


1. Using a proper .22 or .32 sports pistol
For this, either you find someone who is willing to loan you their weapon extensively for practise and participation, or you use the weapons apparently available at Karni Singh Range to practise. However, there are no weapons available at the range, atleast thats what the people there say. So you somehow get a weapon, buy ammo either from same person or if you're a DSRA/NRAI member, from them and practise away. And then participate and hope to qualify.

2. If you already have a licened weapon, even if its an IOF, you can still go ahead and practise and try to get the MQS. While this is decidedly much much more difficult, since these weapons are not really designed for accuracy, it is not impossible. However, I would assume the time/effort would go up five fold if not more.

If you don't have an arms licence

3. Procure an air pistol and practise and participate with it. While the competition is much more, it is easier to get access to a pistol and to practise. You can even practise in your own house. And then try to get good enough to get the MQS. A caveat here, I'm not sure whether being a renowned shot is category specific or not. So if you score MQS in Air category, does that allow you to import.

So on the face of it, its an almost herculean thing at this time.

I am currently going to apply for an arms licence this month probably. Also, I'm planning an RTI to Sports Authority of India to get status of weapons at Karni Singh. If the policy says there are to be weapons there for arms licence holders to use, why are they not available.

Later, once I have my licence, I also plan to file a PIL against this requirement for importing sports weapons. Obviously a more logical system can be put in place which allows genuine sportspersons to access weapons and ensure they don't become a mechanism for grey market sale or anything else.

Regards,
~Chandan

Lets say we are sailing in the same ship since even you have started shooting recently except for the fact that I already have a License and you are applying now(which is good)

I also appreciate your thoughts on PIL and RTI on the respective issues and wish you all the very best
Hope change is not far and helps all in near future

And to your
Point 1 --> I am from Bangalore so Karni Singh range is out of boundary and KSRA is the option for me I guess , looking forward to it
Point 2 --> Its out of question I guess to shoot from an IOF( Practicality is questionable) as they are not Mr.Dependable in current MQS and conditions
Point 3 --> Thinking on it for quite sometime as similar suggestion passed by many to me

On the Whole Thank you for your valuable suggestion and your personal efforts to change the shooting scenario on the whole

RA.50



Hey Farook,

Take my word for it if the Indian government eases down the import restrictions for sport shooters we India's would be bringing in a lot a more medals from ISSF events. I am facing the same issue. Thought I am able to find a few .22 target pistols they are in a bad bad state. Unlike self defense pistols which are sparingly used (many are never used ) a sport shooter would use his pistol extensively for weekend practice. Further as most ranges are open only on weekends and for cost of ammo, target pistols are dry fired almost everyday. This again does potential damage to the firing pin and chamber.

with your opening statement and rest of your statements are also equally true

Also I am considering your and many others point of Air Pistols initially. I will decide on it soon

Thanks for your suggestions

RA.50


Hey Dev,

Now, a used Walther GSP Expert will now cost around 5 lakhs.
Was a time when they went for the buying price.
Sad but true.

Serioulsy ???
5 Lakhs ?

You mean Pistol and Ammo??? ( just Kidding) I know its only pistol

I guess the new ones won't cost that much including all the documentation and customs and etc(if permitted)???

Thank you Dev for updating

Continuing,

I will keep you all updated on the progress

Lets see what happens

Regards,

RA.50