12 gauge double rifle

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:59 pm

I have a 12 ga double rifle I bought in Afghanistan, was told it came from Pakistan. Someone "improved" it by sanding all the patina and tried to sand off the makers name, you can barely make out that it said "Pakistan". They probably did this because they believed a gun thought to have been made elsewhere like the UK would bring more money, but they nearly ruined it. I really wish they'd left it rusty or whatever.

It looks like a double barrel shotgun, has multi-leaf express sights, and it's very heavy, with really deeply engraved rifling. The barrel appears to be damascus, so I'm assuming it is for blackpowder shells. I say it's 12 gauge, that's a guess based on just looking, but with many years of experience, so I think that's what it is.

It has outside hammers and appears to have been made in the late 1800's. I haven't tried it yet, I'm from the US, where the gun is, and I'm now living in Canada, and I don't have pictures just now. Next time I'm there I intend to try it, starting out light. one barrel unfortunately has a ring bulge, so I guess I won't try that one.

I have seen some rounds, years ago online, that looked almost like a .22 short, if the .22 short was made the size of a 12 ga, that I believe were for such a gun, but can't find the pictures now. They had an unusual crimp, very pronounced.

Anyone have any idea where this kind of weapon was made, or any other information? Just curious, really.

The rifling looks like it is more than 1/8 inch deep. I would bet it was made to shoot tigers or maybe elephants or other really large game.

Thanks for the help.

farook · Post by **farook** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:12 pm

Do post a few pics.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:07 pm

I will, but may take a while to get them

Post by **TwoRivers** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:22 pm

"Pakistan" came into being in 1947, a gun made in the 1880s could not have "Pakistan" engraved or stamped on it at that time. Rifling 1/8 " deep is more than ten times what was even common in muzzle loading rifles, extremely unlikely.

Are there any proof marks on the barrel flats and watertable ? Without pictures and more details nothing can be determined.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:33 am

Good point, I forgot about Pakistan. So,it's either been re-marked, or considering where it was bought, made 4 years ago in the Khyber pass area from old car parts using skill and hand tools and little else. The rifling is a guess, and from memory, it might be less than 1/8th, but if so not much. Looks more like what one sees in an artillery piece than what is normal for small arms of any kind.

I may have some pictures, if not, will be months before I can post them, I will look.

Thanks

Post by **TwoRivers** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:25 am

Typically, guns made in Darra Adam Khel were marked with various contradictory markings, misspelled, from different eras, upside down, etc.,but not with "(Made in) Pakistan". Will be interesting to see pictures.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:01 pm

Once upon a time, in Kabul, Afghanistan, there were 5 guys. One of them had bought a musket, and we spent many hours checking out stamps, proof marks, regimental marks, act. We used little green led lights to see all the marks. We were all very knowledgeable, but we were all very intoxicated...

Next day, jim (the owner of the piece) told us he was the proud owner of an Enfleid. For those who English isn't the first language, "Enfield" is the correct spelling, not "Enflied".
My double may be the same.

I'll get the pics when I can.

ckkalyan · Post by **ckkalyan** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:08 pm

Vik wrote: Next day, jim (the owner of the piece) told us he was the proud owner of an Enfleid. For those who English isn't the first language, "Enfield" is the correct spelling, not "Enflied". My double may be the same.

Good one

Vik, you may have 'double trouble,' fielding this one?!

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:06 am

AGDRS copy.jpg

AGRDR copy.jpg, AGDRS copy.jpg, AGDRP copy.jpg, AGDRN copy.jpg, AGDRJ.JPG, AGDRK.JPG, AGDRJ.JPG, AGDRI.JPG, AGDRH.JPG

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:17 am

Second try, maybe I managed to post all the photos. I may have been a little off on the 1/8 inch deep rifling, but you have to admit it is rather deep. Any information would be appreciated, especially what ammo it was designed to use? It chambers a 12 ga round, but seems loose. Appears damascus in non-filed or sanded places. Seems functional.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:42 pm

Well...Anyone know why some of the pictures are blurry and some aren't? They were all sharp when I posted them..

Post by **Vikram** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:55 pm

Click on a photo to view it clearly.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:33 am

Thanks, Vikram. I didn't think to ask for it to be put here, appreciate it.

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12 gauge double rifle

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