miroku shotgun

[cyrixoutside]

Has anyone here ever heard/used a japanese make shot gun by the name of "miroku", a fellow wants my beretta and is offering this gun, which appears to be a trap model with monte carlo stock, SST and good amount of engraving, plus some good amount of cash as well, so i am very much tempted

please advise



rajat

[danish21]

Hi Rajat
I hope this link will help you a lot.
http://www.clayshootingusa.com/readers/ ... nmaker.pdf

Danish

[mehulkamdar]

Rajat,

Miroku are owned by FN and they make several of the guns sold under the Browning name. They are nice guns and no one has ever said a bad word about how they perform, though, like all Japanese guns, they have poor resale values over here. If you're looking at a using gun, a Miroku in good shape would be very nice and it would last almost forever.

Just curious - what model Beretta and what model Miroku are you talking about? If you post the markings from both, I could give you comparatie values from the Schwing guide and then you could make your mind up and decide.

Cheers!

[cyrixoutside]

hi,

danish thanks of the info

mehul,

the beretta is S-56-E made in 1972 and the miroku does not have any model name on it but looks almost like a miroku made charles day superior grade trap (it could even be the diamond grade, though i doubt it)

obviously in india the beretta will sell of a much higher price.



rajat

[mehulkamdar]

Rajat,

The Schwing guide lists the S 56 E at $ 600 in excellent condition in the USA. The Charles Daly Superior Grade Trap with a Monte Carlo stock is listed in the same guide in excellent condition at $ 1700.

As you say, values in India and the USA can be vastly different. When shooters get to use different guns, they are not as brand name obsessed as they are in India thanks to actual field experience.

Cheers!

[cyrixoutside]

thanks mehul, i think its a no brainer as far as i am concerned, i'll get the miroku.



rajat

[Risala]

Rajat,
If your Beretta is for Sale,I would be intrested.
Thanks
Sanjay

[hamiclar01]

Rajat

name on it but looks almost like a miroku made charles day superior grade trap (it could even be the diamond grade, though i doubt it)

obviously in india the beretta will sell of a much higher price.



rajat

[quote="cyrixoutside";p="20379"]

before you hasten to complete the deal,a few quick facts:

i have used mirokus, which are good guns. but on the market , specially in england, they do not fare as well as berettas as far as resales go. brand new mirokus are cheaper than berettas. in fact, most entry levels into trap shooting in u.k. tend to use a miroku mk 38.....a kind of poor man's trap gun, and progress to a beretta dt 10 or perazzi as they progress.

so, not only in india, but anywhere, the beretta will sell at a much higher price

to illustrate my point, consider the Mk38 itself, standard trap grade miroku,

£ 795 roughly: grade I (basic engraving, wood), which moves on to
£1300 approx: grade III (superior grade wood, engravings)

compare this with a Beretta trap DT10 at £1600, or 682 trap at £1700.

Prices illustrative of current U.k. gun values for well kept, second hand guns

as far as sportings go, a miroku sprorter fetches around £600ish, while berettas start at £700.....i mean well kept, good quality guns.

and no, funny it may seem, i'm not speaking thru my hat i shopped around desperately for a good affordable trap gun last year, till circumstances took over. i'd narrowed for a mk 38 grade I, purely for price reasons (where else would you get a trap gun under 1000 quid).

caveat emptor

anand

[monty3006]

I agree with anand !!!!!!
Please beware while selling and buying guns in India.
Over unders are highly over rated here, the miroku might also turn out 2 be older than the beretta u currently have. Before the takeover of Miroku (Japan) by Browning USA, the miroku guns made were of poor quality. I may be wrong but please check this out and then take a decision...
Caveat Emptor

[mehulkamdar]

Apples to apples here - a Beretta DT 10 is not an S-56 E. The DT 10 starts at $ 9000 without engraving over here. Perazzi MX-3s start at $ 3200 and the company builds shotguns all the way up to $ 50,000 plus custom live pigeon guns. Not at all in the class of guns we are speaking about right now. Comparing a DT-10 to an S 56 E would be like comparing a Rolls Royce Phantom to a Maruti 800. In short, a joke.

It would not hurt, as I always point out, not to be brand obsessed. Does kind of skewer one's perspective especially when someone's exposure to guns is severely limited.

This is not to advise Rajat to sell or hold his gun - the decision is his to make. But, like Army and Navy guns that get fobbed off as Purdeys on this forum, the comparisons above are a load of horse manure strictly in quality terms.

[hamiclar01]

Apples to apples here - a Beretta DT 10 is not an S-56 E.

apples to apples indeed! funnily , i don't remember comparing the DT 10 to the S 56. i think (scratch scratch ) it was a comparison between the miroku mk 38 superior grade trap series and the beretta trap models.

Comparing a DT-10 to an S 56 E would be like comparing a Rolls Royce Phantom to a Maruti 800.

same point. in fact the whole example of trap guns arose because rajat did not know which miroku model was being offered.( s 56 vs ????). hence the resort to using trap models as an example.....miroku's best trap model against beretta. scroll down my post and you'd find the sporting models compared

It would not hurt, as I always point out, not to be brand obsessed. Does kind of skewer one's perspective especially when someone's exposure to guns is severely limited.

re read my post. i have started it off by saying that mirokus are good guns. the fact that i am willing to buy one should be proof of that. so where is the brand obsession in my post? I didn't make the Miroku/beretta market prices. I'm just reporting them.

But, like Army and Navy guns that get fobbed off as Purdeys on this forum, the comparisons above are a load of horse manure strictly in quality terms.

here we go again

[mehulkamdar]

Anand,

Why bring a DT-10 or anything else in when the question asked was specifically about an S 56 E? Unless you wanted to bring in a comparison for the sake of sounding "knowledgeable." Indeed, the top Miroku models are sold under a name that a brand chaser would have no problem with - Browning. Several of the early BSS sidelocks were made for Browning by Miroku until military orders meant that their production was outsourced to Dumoulin and Lebeau-Courally. But then, if I go on, I would be doing exactly what you have been doing, which is wasting bandwidth with a completely useless comparison.

A specific model from Beretta's line was mentioned, as was the comparable Miroku. I do know what Charles Daly products are and have shot their guns. Have you? It does not take long to figure out what is being discussed, provided one knows what is being talked about.

The prices that I mentioned here were from one authoritative US trade guide and they were confirmed later from another one. And yes, I do have some experience in buying guns and shooting them.

Comparing the "best" Beretta to the "best" Miroku is a silly excuse particularly when it was you who brought in a $ 9000 plus gun into comparison with a vastly cheaper one. Horse manure is horse manure no matter how much perfume you spray over it.

[Grumpy]

The best Miroku is the President model which is considerably more expensive than a MK 38.
The DT10 is nowhere near Berettas top-of-the-range model - that role is held by the SO sidelocks, including dedicated competition models.
S56E Berettas are virtually impossible to sell in the UK because they are so elderly.......Even a good one won`t make £400. Try finding a Miroku 3800 for that sort of money.
The advantage that the Miroku O/Us have is that they are licenced copies of the Browning Superposed design.......and the Browning Superposed design has changed only in matters of detail since it was first introduced yet it is still used by many world class clay shots.
I`ve no idea how the DT10 was brought into this matter as it bears little relation to the S56E ....... in terms of design, age or price.
If the Miroku is a Browning clone I`d go for it ....... The model number should be engraved on the action somewhere - usually underneath.
The last I heard, Miroku was still an independent corporation quoted on the Japanese Stock Exchange - FN had a small stake in the company ( just under 8% if memory serves me right. ) I`m not aware of any changes to that situation.

[monty3006]

guys guys guys...................
why do we need 2 fight here?????
lets all just chill!!!!!!!!!

[Vikram]

Right gentlemen, if you please, on to discussing guns. Thank you.

Best-
Vikram