Low Power Scope for Winchester Model 70

[Safarigent]

I have recently come in possession of a Winchester Model 70 rifle chambered for the .375 H&H Magnum cartridge.
I want to put a low power scope on it.
Been surfing the internet for some knowledge and have come up more confused than enlightened.
The features that i think are must haves:
1. QD mounts.
2. Wide FoV.
3. Excellent light transmission.
4. Good eye relief.
5. An Illuminated Reticle.
6. Sharp picture quality edge to edge.

My budget is a 1000 USD or less.
A dear friend suggested a minox low power scope.
Another a leupold low power.
I am confused about the various brands of scopes and the pros and cons of each model.
Personally the Nikon monarch Gold 1.1x4 seems like a good choice.
What would the more experienced folks here suggest?
I am hopeless when it comes to optics.
Please help.

[Vikram]

Arjun,

Congratulations on your latest acquisition. Would love to see the photos of the beauties if that is alright. Re the scope, be prepared for some great info that will be on this thread.

Meanwhile, before you spend $1000, check this link.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-monar ... -8446.html

Grumps sent it a while ago. Someone got lucky with this scope.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-Monarch ... true&rt=nc



Best-
Vikram

[Baljit]

Arjun

First of all congratulations for you new toy. Good friend of mine have a 375 H&H here in Canada, he mounted Leupold 2.5x8.vari-lll on his 375.He shoot moose ,elk and bear with it, trust me he is very happy with this scope. I would not suggest a 40mm objective for a .375 scope. A fairly light scope goes better with a rifle that has this much recoil in an 8 pound rifle. I am thinking this scope give you a very nice 3.6 inches of eye relief.

Here is a link for this scope.....http://www.midwayusa.com/product/115305 ... icle-matte

Here is other choice for you.The other scopes I'm considering is also Leupold VX3 in 1.5-5 with very nice 3.7 inches of eye relief.

Here is a link for this scope...http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting ... es-metric/

I hope it's give a good idea for your 375.

Good Luck
Baljit

[Mark]

I think most any scope over $200 will work just fine. Actually, even the $100 scopes nowadays aren't that bad but a nice rifle that you will spend money to use hunting in interesting places might as well have a nice set of optics since it is such a small percentage of the total price, and is one of the more important items.

For magnification, I am moving towards 2X on the low end. My last 2 purchases have had the low end be 1.5X and in practice there's not much difference, and I'd rather have 7 or 8X on the top end instead of 4.5X-5.5X, especially on a caliber like 375.

[Mark]

Oh, one last thing in regards to illuminated recticules-

In my opinion, the only type that works a darn is one that has just a tiny dot of light. The ones that have the entire recticule illuminate are pretty much worthless IMHO in very low light, as if it is dark enough where you actually need to use the illumination, even on the lowest setting it will wash out the picture. So I do not purchase that type any more. I have one on my rifled barrel bolt shotgun but do not ever use it as you simply cannot, about the only time it might be helpful is if you are hunting at the edge of a woods and have to shoot into a dark, like very dark, area and to be honest I've never been in that situation.

[Grumpy]

A dangerous game scope needs to be simple, tough and reliable. The maximum magnification should be x5 at the absolute most and minimum magnification should be as close to unity ( ie, x1 ) as possible. You should look for a straight tube rifle scope by a quality manufacturer with a decent amount of eye relief and as wide a field of view as possible. Something like a straight-tube 1-4.5x24 would be ideal. Don`t get an illuminated reticle scope - illuminated reticles should be avoided at all cost - there`s plenty of light in Africa, you likely won`t have time to adjust the level of light .... and, as often as not, there`s nowhere to buy batteries if the cell fails. Up until around three years ago the Nikon Monarchs were the best value for money around ... unfortunately Nikon couldn`t leave well alone and where there was just the one Monarch range there are now four - and the less expensive Monarch ranges are no longer built in Japan. Basically you should buy the best scope that you can afford. When your life might well depend on your scope it does not pay to skimp on quality. Don`t forget to look at used scopes as there is often a substantial saving to be made compared to new. Look for used scopes by Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski/Habicht, Zeiss, Kahles, Pecar, Docter, etc. In the US look at the better Leupolds - unfortunately in Europe Leupold scopes are not such a good deal as in the US because of the price premium loaded onto them due to shipping costs and VAT. The top-of-the-range Nikon Monarchs can also be considered as well as the better Minox scopes. The reticle should be simple and obvious - a German No. 4 or 4A ... or even a No 2 post reticle if your brain works with them .... mine doesn`t.

[TwoRivers]

Amen! to Grumpy's post.
Unfortunately the trend has been to higher power, bigger scopes, with much higher zoom factors. Good 1-4X, or 1.5x6X (my favorite) are getting harder to find, most manufacturers seem to have dropped them. Weaver still has a 1-3X, and they have served me well on a variety of rifles in different chamberings. Accupoint makes a very nice, though not cheap, naturally illuminated 1x4X. Under poor light condition the straight tubed ones can get a bit dim; but then, in Africa it's either bright or pitch black in a hurry. Miss those African sunsets.

Incidentally, there is more than one screw hole spacing on the pre-64 Winchester M70 magnum actions, so be sure to measure the spacing (rear base) before ordering mounts. Cheers.

[brihacharan]

Hi ABM,
Just came across the following pertaining to your query - hope it helps
Q.
Bought a Remington 798, in 375 H&H, at a Buckmaster Expo in Montgomery yesterday. Plan to use it on a hunt to Namibia next year. Last time I was in Africa I took a 308 and felt under-gunned against some of the larger Plains Game. Probably could have moved up to 300 WSM but the price was too compelling on the 375 H&H. My question is simple. What is a solid durable scope to buy? I assume 99% of the shots would be under 300 yds. I would also like to stay under $1000. Thanks for any help.

A.
Some sort of a 2-7x32 or similar is probably your best bet also the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 is easily one of my favorite such scopes.
On the other hand, there is a lot to be sad about good quality 4x32 scopes. Unfortunately, there are not all that many top notch 4x scopes out there that come with reticle designed for low light use. One such scope that I can comfortably recommend is IOR 4x32 with # 4 reticle…
http://swfa.com/IOR-4x32-Hunting-Rifle-Scope-P6742.aspx

For further info. Pl refer....
Scope for 375 H&H - The Optics Talk Forums - Page 1
www.opticstalk.com › Scopes › Rifle Scopes‎
Aug 22, 2010 - 25 posts - ‎13 authors
http://swfa.com/Trijicon-1-4x24-Accu-Po ... 12890.aspx .... I am the proud new owner of a CZ550 in .375 H&H Mag.
Briha

[Grumpy]

The nature of a rifle scope required for use on African plains game and that needed for dangerous game are very different.
Here`s an article about dangerous game scopes:
http://scopesfordangerousgame.blogspot. ... ew-of.html

[Grumpy]

TwoRivers, I agree with you that the trend towards very high power rifle scopes is unfortunate ... to put it mildly. Whilst there`s a place for high power scopes - ie, for bench rest target shooting and for long range varmint hunting - their use in general hunting is not only unnecessary but downright stupid. Apart from the fact that movement is increasingly and excessively `amplified` the higher the amount of magnification used, there is the point that high magnification is just not necessary. To put it in simple terms, using x8 power to target a deer that is 200 yards away is akin to viewing the animal at 25 yards range. The idea of a rifle scope is to improve accuracy - not to examine the interior of an animals nostrils ! If anyone needs to view a deer at the equivalent of 25 yards away or nearer in order shoot it accurately I would suggest they need an urgent appointment with an optician !
The `classic` British deer stalking scope was - and is - a 6x42 fixed power. That magnification was established over many years in Scottish highland stalking conditions where shots at 200 yards or more are commonly made. If x6 power is ideal for 200 yards and more then I`d like to know just what use a x12 or x16 is going to be on deer sized game at closer ranges. High power optics have a place ..... but that is NOT on stalking rifles.
I very much agree with TwoRivers and the answer quoted by Brihacharan that the ideal scope for general hunting is a 1.5-6 or 2-7 variable. Furthermore, with the advances in lens coatings over the last few years there is no longer any necessity for huge 50/56 mm objective lenses and I strongly favour objectives of 32 or 36 mm with their advantages of compact size and getting the scope as close as possible to the bore line. Happily certain manufacturers have realised the benefits of such scopes and there is a minor trend towards supplying them - the lovely little Minox ZA 1.5-8x32 comes to mind as an example of an `ideal` all-round rifle scope.
I must reiterate however Safarigent that the requirements for a dangerous game scope are very different, very specific and not something that can be compromised on. A general usage hunting scope is NOT suitable for use on dangerous game.

[Safarigent]

Thank you for your observations gents.
So what would be your personal experience with Nikons and Leupolds? I guess i am going to be looking at these two a lot more closely.
Thanks

[Grumpy]

I can`t really make too much sense of what Nikon is up to at the moment but their Monarch 3 1-4x20 is not as good a scope as the Leupold VX-3 ( in my opinion ......although I doubt you`ll find anyone that disagrees with me ) which is why it`s half the price of the Leupold VX-3. The superior - and much more expensive - Japanese built Monarch scopes seem to have been discontinued. My attitude when manufacturers are `ratifying` product ranges is to avoid them like the plague. I was ( and am ) a BIG fan of the Japanese built Monarchs but don`t rate non-Japanese Monarch scopes at all. If I remember correctly, the Monarch Gold range had 30mm Tubes and were Japanese built. If that`s the case, and you can find a low power straight tube example it would be a very good buy.
All Monarchs are definitely NOT equal.
The Leupold VX-2 1 - 4x20 is a nice enough scope but nothing special. The only available reticle is a duplex.
The Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x20 is a nice scope and good value for money at US prices. Max magnification is actually x4.5 and a German No.4 reticle is $70 extra.
The Leupold VX-6 1-6x24 CDS ( with German No.4 reticle at no extra charge ) is twice the price of the VX-3 and right at the full extent of your $1000 limit ..... but it is a VERY fine scope and can be found with appreciable discounts from the MSRP. It is in a different class to the VX-3 ( even more so compared to the Monarch 3. ) The VX-6 has a 30mm tube and takes advantage of the advances in modern optics technology with a full 1:6 zoom range - something that wasn`t possible even five years ago. As such it gives you the best of both worlds in that it is a more than adequate dangerous game scope yet has adequate magnification for general game hunting without compromise. It might be a fair amount of money ( although inexpensive when compared to a German or Austrian scope ) but it will save you having to buy a second scope.

[Grumpy]

By the way, Sport Optics.com are offering the VX-6 1-6x24 with No.4 reticle for $799.99 - a full $200 discount from the MSRP.
There might even be better deals around.
Remember DON`T get a dangerous game scope with an illuminated reticle.

[Safarigent]

Anyone used this company?
http://www.conetrol.com/
They seem to have some good quality bases and QD system.
I basiy want something wherein i can use the iron sights with ease after removing the scope.

Regarding the scope, i am gonna have to read up the information and get back to you all with that. My ideas are quite clear, i want to spend as much money on good optics and glass rather than zoom. Towards that requirement. 1x4 or a 1x5 would be ideal. Long eye relief with a good reticle, Illuminated dot better than the whole reticle itself being illuminated.
This is going to turn into a Winchester restoration thread soon as i am also looking at a recoil pad to increase length of pull, and if that doesnt solve the problem, a new stock. Only the 300 yard leaf sight is remaining. The other holes have been plugged with screws. Need those two sights too.
Thanks once again for all your help folks

[Grumpy]

Read what I said about an illuminated reticle for dangerous game and read the article above where the author says that an illuminated reticle is the worst possible choice for dangerous game. Illuminated dot`s or crosses are the norm by the way ..... a completely illuminated reticle would be a joke. I like illuminated reticles but wouldn`t touch one with a bargepole for dangerous game.
Fixed x4 or x5 magnification would also be totally unsuitable for dangerous game where you need as little magnification as possible. Apart from that, the only x4 type fixed power scopes available are crappy little airgun scopes. The lowest power non-zoom types that I can think of are the 6x42 stalking scopes - which would be quite unsuitable for dangerous game. Fixed magnification low power scopes used to be made for centrefire rifles but they are antiques nowadays and nobody makes one that I can think of ..... probably because there`s no call and no need for such a thing.
Are you sure that you mean `dangerous` game ? The definition of dangerous game is game that can kill you - Cape buffalo, Big cats, Hippo, Rhino, Elephant. Hunting dangerous game in Africa is done at short range so low magnification is required and the widest possible field of view is necessary so that you can acquire the target as quickly as possible. As the field of view is directly related to magnification the scope will necessarily be set to very low power for dangerous game nearly all the time - ie, unity (x1) x1.5, maybe x2.
An illuminated reticle fixed x4 or x5 scope will quite possibly get you killed.
Remember that if the PH considers your equipment to be unsuitable he won`t allow you to hunt.
Frankly you`ld do far better to fix your iron sites and forget your ideas re scopes. As you say, you are going to have to read up a great deal on optics as you obviously haven`t much of a clue currently. Everyone has to start somewhere and you have made the biggest step in acknowledging that your knowledge is extremely limited.