Shotgun Cartridges Comparison Photo

[Grumpy]

Basically, the smaller the case diameter, the higher the `Bore` ( `Gauge` in the US ) designation. On the same basis, the smaller the bore designation, the greater the cartridge diameter.
The .410 is approximately a 68-Bore.
The .410 is a small bore, the 12-bore considerably larger ...... the 4-Bore larger again.
.410 shotguns are often called `rat guns` in the UK because most people consider that shooting rats at close range is all they are good for. The considerably smaller .22 and 9mm shotguns were called `Garden Guns` as it was considered that they were safe for use in gardens because their shot load was so light in weight and the shot size so tiny ( so-called `dust` shot. )

[TwoRivers]

Correctly, these are not "bore", except for the .410 bore, but "gauge". They are determined by the number of balls that can be made from on pound of pure lead. So, the fewer balls, the larger. A 12 gauge, for instance, would be a .729" bore, a 28 gauge would be a .550" bore.
Unfortunately, the term "bore" for "gauge" is widespread, even among the British trade. They. of all people, should know better, having come up with the gauge system in the first place. Cheers.

[Grumpy]

Interesting point .... but show me where the term `gauge` was ever used by the British gun trade historically. The term `bore` referred to a ball size by weight - ie, a 12-bore was the bore diameter required for a ball weighing one twelth of a pound. `Gauge` is an Americanism which is why those in the British gun trade who know better use the correct term `Bore`. There never was a `gauge system` ..... except in the minds of some Americans.

[Grumpy]

And by the way, if you refer to the Wikipedia entry on `Gauge` ( bore diameter )` you`ll find that every one of the references quoted is American.

[TwoRivers]

I new that one was coming! Wikipedia: "Nonsensus by Consensus".

Dimension of a "bore", any drilled hole, is normally measured in whatever measuring system is being used. Gauge was used traditionally in such things as sheet metal, nails, gun barrels, etc., where it indicates numbers produced from a given quantity of raw material, not the actual dimension or diameter of the finished product.

Not that I really give a hoot what anyone decides to call it, but it helps to know what it means. And to be really picky, it should be called an "XX gauge bore".

[TwoRivers]

Interesting point .... but show me where the term `gauge` was ever used by the British gun trade historically. The term `bore` referred to a ball size by weight - ie, a 12-bore was the bore.

W.W. Greener, "The Gun and its Development". Thought he was a Brit, and active in the trade.

[BowMan]

4ga that's hell...

I always thought 8 was it...

[Grumpy]

W.W.Greener was probably catering to the Americans as that`s who he sold most of his guns to. ( That is a mildly sarcastic comment but with some accuracy. )Greener had some impact but it was limited in the UK because he was not a major gunmaker - certainly not in terms of output. Greener was also a legend in his own imagination.
When the term `bore` was first used there was no standardised form of measuring nomenclature ... of anything much ... but the term was used because those employing it knew exactly what they meant by it. We in the UK know what the term `bore` means as regards guns because we grew-up with the term. You grew up with the term `gauge` and understand what it means - the fact that it`s incorrect doesn`t actually make any difference to your comprehension of the term used. `XXX Gauge Bore` might mean something now but it would have been gibberish not so long ago. Times change and so does nomenclature.
If it`s any comfort to you, the term `gauge`is becoming more and more widespread here and will, no doubt, eventually take over ..... not because of it being more accurate - because it definitely isn`t - but because the English language generally is being corrupted with Americanisms ..... and bizarre Australian inflections. I notice that the rising interrogative ending to a plain statement is now being used by younger Americans also. We`re all going to end-up talking garbage.
By the way, you completely misunderstood my point re the Wiki entry.

[nagarifle]

i love it when two old fa*Ts start to bore it out.

please keep it going as i am learning something .

[TwoRivers]

..... and bizarre Australian inflections. I notice that the rising interrogative ending to a plain statement is now being used by younger Americans also. We`re all going to end-up talking garbage.

That usually implies left-leaning "liberal" politics. Didn't know the Aussies were infected, too.


By the way, you completely misunderstood my point re the Wiki entry.

Don't think so. Think you misunderstood my reply. OK, Greener was just a wannabee catering to the Americans and corrupting the Queen's English, but the Birmingham Proof House?, and the "Field"? Actually, if you go through the book you'll find both terms used. OK, I'll compromise. "Bore" when I'm wearing tweed or talking about the .410, "Gauge" the rest of the time.